360 leaking rear main seal | FerrariChat

360 leaking rear main seal

Discussion in '360/430' started by Darling930, Jun 25, 2013.

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  1. Darling930

    Darling930 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2009
    22
    I appear to have a leaking rear main seal on my 2004 360 Spider. I have done a search of the forums and there are several comments that this is relatively common in 360's, although not many posts. I read one post that mentioned it could be related to a "failure to relieve pressure" and an oil line but no specifics. Car had belt change done early winter and I had not driven much over the winter. I noticed the oil on the garage floor when I started driving the car in late spring but just now had a chance to get the car on lift and look. Although occurring shortly after cam belt service it seems that it would be unlikely the leak and the belt change are related? (opposite ends of the engine). Thanks in advance for any help.
     
  2. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    Oil seal can dry up and start leaking from lack of use (during use the oil is circulating, lubing them). I see no connection between cam belt change and leaking rear main...
    Jes
     
  3. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jan 28, 2007
    2,509
    Somewhere, anywhere
    Full Name:
    Eddie B
    As above. Lack of use is the primary reason for failure..
     
  4. Darling930

    Darling930 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2009
    22
    Thanks. That is pretty much what I figured. Trying to decide if I can replace myself. I have done it on my Porsche 930 (as well as clutch). Not bad really, you have to drop entire engine on the Porsche where it seems you can just disconnect transaxle on 360. Does anyone know about the F1 clutch: if you don't change (mine has plenty of life left) do you need to have dealer reset the TCU or not?
     
  5. Darling930

    Darling930 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2009
    22
    I guess the other question is how badly does the seal need to be replaced if it is only leaking a bit. Can it wait until clutch needs replacement or at least until winter as long as oil level checked and maintained.
     
  6. futureferraribuyer

    futureferraribuyer Formula Junior

    Jun 23, 2010
    296
    I had the same problem and replaced the seal. In retrospect probably would have waited since it leaked less than my air cooled Porsche on its best day. Not sure what harm it would have done...
     
  7. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    9,518
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    Leaking rear main equals failed clutch.
     
  8. Darling930

    Darling930 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2009
    22
    I am confused, in every other engine/flywheel/clutch combo I have ever taken apart the rear main seal is between the engine and the flywheel so oil leaks onto the NONE clutch side of the flywheel (makes a mess but does not get anywhere near the clutch). Is the Ferrari somehow different? Flywheel vented? or cross drilled?
     
  9. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    9,518
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    I'm not an expert here. None the less, I wouldn't worry too much. When you do the seal you will do the clutch so it doesn't really matter.
     
  10. dkilka

    dkilka Formula Junior

    May 8, 2007
    289
    Australia
    #10 dkilka, Jun 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
    +1.

    I had my 360 in storage before shipping with me to Australia when I emigrated. This lack of use resulted in various seals including the rear main seal drying out and requiring replacement. Storage was unavoidable but I now ensure I drive the car at least once every couple of weeks if not weekly.

    Gearbox has to come off to remedy RMS. So it was an expensive exercise..... Your clutch can get contaminated with oil from the RMS leak so be carefull, don't think a small leak is a major issue but if its leaking out of the undertray I'd say its more than a minor leak. I have a 6spd manual but from what I know the F1's need to be plugged into the computer to set the clutches up correctly in the F1 transmission. Clutch change can be done without this but incorrectly set up will wear out the new clutch much sooner. Also I believe the whole clutch assemly should be replaced/resurfaced don't just replace the friction disc. Also check condition of your T/O bearing and all the hydraulic seals whilst your in there. Personally I'd replace the lot at the same time.

    Good luck mate.
     
  11. mbo

    mbo Rookie

    May 24, 2014
    1
    Calgary, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mintu Bose
    Hi, I need to replace rear engine seal on my 2004 360 spider. Can anyone tell me how much work (hours) this will entail.
    Thanks
     
  12. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Another friend of mine here also has a leaking rear main seal so I called my dealer to get a quote.

    Rear Main Seal replacement from the dealership is around $3,000.00.

    Dan
     
  13. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
    Full Name:
    Alan
    Yep that's me. It's in the dealers right now and they confirmed it was a rear main. I had it at my indie mechanic but as it's an F1 and he doesn't have the equipment to handle it so he called his friend at FCI who said it's a common problem on the 360. Dan's mechanic also said that he has seen the oil pan leaking so you need to confirm that it isn't that before tearing into the transmission. My understanding is that the transaxle is moved back sufficient to get the flywheel and clutch out. My clutch was replaced about 4k miles ago together with the new 6 bolt starter ring, throw out bearing and position sensor and bracket. My wear is only 11% so no new clutch and they haven't said anything about oil on the clutch. Incidentally I drive my every week so I don't think it's through drying out of the seal but when the under tray was off there was quite a bit of old oil on it that had got dirt mixed in with it as well as the clean engine oil. Not sure if the seal was leaking then stopped and started again. I only noticed oil on the garage floor a week ago when I pulled the car out to wash it. The last time I did this was about two months ago and I would have noticed any oil at that time and I didn't.
    Estimated cost $3150 but I'm hoping it comes in less.
    Alan
     
  14. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2012
    794
    Cheshire UK
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    A clutch change was 12 hours labour when I asked last week.........RMS should be similar.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,159
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    The F430 Service Time Schedule shows 10.7 hours for removing the flywheel (10.4 for a clutch change) and 2.0 hours for replacing the rear main seal. 360 should be similar.
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,075
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    In my experience the oil pan leaking right at the rear main seal is quite common. Actually I think it is more common. If it was my car I'd pull the pan and reseal it too.
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,075
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    430 is a very different job actually but the labor times in the 360 manual were a work of some warranty administrators imagination.
     
  18. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
    Full Name:
    Alan
    I get my car back today so will post the labor times. Tech adviser said that he was about $200 less than the $3150 estimate and will try to whittle it down some more.
    Alan
     
  19. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Thanks for the update Alan.

    Have a great weekend!

    Dan
     
  20. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
    Full Name:
    Alan
    Labor cost was $2500 -- not sure of their labor rate. They included a crankcase gasket -- not sure if that is a gasket between the engine and transmission or a pan gasket as they did charge for 5W40 oil so they must have drained the engine. I'll have to ask the service advisor.
    Alan
     
  21. futureferraribuyer

    futureferraribuyer Formula Junior

    Jun 23, 2010
    296
    About the same for me as well. The oil was drained during the process and refilled.
     
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,159
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Alan- Not too bad considering everything they had to remove.
     
  23. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,148
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Thanks for the update Alan.

    Glad to hear its less than we expected.

    Dan
     
  24. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
    Full Name:
    Alan
    Yes I was okay with that. I went back to their workshop to talk to the tech who worked on mine and he was doing a major service on a beautiful 1972 Dino GT that they had picked up in Tennessee. The next bay had a 430 with the transaxle removed that was sent to a dealer in Florida who is apparently one of only a very few that rebuilds them.
    My tech said that he has replaced over half a dozen transmission oil heat exchangers so I'm going to get an estimate -- apparently they are available from Ferrari (I thought they were on a long back order).
    Alan
     
  25. Zcobra1

    Zcobra1 Formula 3

    Oct 9, 2012
    1,242
    So Cal
    Full Name:
    Bert
    IIRC, Seakamp will make custom coolers if you send them yours, they duplicate
    them. They make boat coolers, and at about $900 a pop for OEM, worth a shot.
    In a past post I recommended looking at "MR. cool" for coolers, this before
    I just found a less than 2 year old Mr. cool boat trans. Cooler leaking !

    A transmission oil/water cooler for a 8.1 l on a boat is under $200
    so it s/b a lot less than OEM.

    If anyone has a used or leaking 360 trans. cooler lying around,
    I will pay you shipping to me, I will send it to Seakamp, have one made for me,
    they will keep the spec on file and others can order as needed.
    I plan on a scheduled replacement this winter, having one on hand would be nice.

    The boat transmission go to guy in San Diego said he only uses Seakamp, and
    similar to our 360's, almost every trans. In his shop is there due to cooler failure.....
     

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