Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Only in a straight line , not round a track it isn't
Owned both , tracked both extensively .

The 12 is faster in the hands of 90 per cent of drivers , give them both to someone who knows what they are doing ( or a pro ) and the gt( on modern rubber of course ) is faster .

 

Any actual data ?

 

Playing the broken record, again?

McLaren set their production target for the P1 at 375 and they have sold all 375. The lesson they learned from the F1 in choosing that number was that if you don't set out to build too many in the first place, they'll be more desirable. That's why a P1 in Canada has already changed hands for a 50% premium.

>8^)
ER

 

Sorry I don't have any of my 12 data , all got binned when I sold the car .
Look at all the tests ever done on the 2 cars ( sport auto is a good one ) they are basically the same give or take . Then add modern rubber ( which depending on compound is 10/15 seconds round the ring for example ) and modify the times accordingly .

Even with the Carrera gt's atrocious original choice of rubber the sport auto articles make interesting reading :

Cgt 12c
Ring. 7:32.4 (wet parts). 7:28
Hheim. 108.6. 108.7
Acceleration. 10.2. 9.8
Braking. 4.8. 5.2
Slalom. 157 kph. 157kph


Interesting hvs thought at the time with ideal conditions he would have been several seconds faster still in the gt .

And adjusted for modern rubber , you can see that my observations are sound .

In my experience the Cgt has more mechanical grip and downforce than the 12c . Along with the analogue chassis with its consistency of responses , although harder to exploit , you can lean longer and harder on the gt without having to second guess what the electronic systems ( that are allegedly turned off , but really aren't ) are going to do . The Cgt also brakes significantly better and longer in my experience . That's also before you start playing with the Cgt's adjustable suspension to better exploit individual tracks.
But you need to be really on it in the gt , if you come out of the revs or make the slightest mistake the 12c with its "power everywhere" engine and gearbox can claw back car lengths .
I must add the caveat that this is ONLY IN THE HANDS OF A GOOD , EXPERIENCED DRIVER AND WITH THE GT ON MODERN RUBBER , the 12 c is faster in the hands of 90 per cent of the populace .

 

The irony is: From a revenue stand point, Porsche generated more sales revenue with the Carrera GT ten years ago ($448,000 X 1100 =$493 mil) than the P1 today ($1.1 million vs 375= $412 mil). And of course the 918 today at 700 units (priced at $900,000 each), would generate more revenue for Porsche than 375 P1's $630,000,000 vs $412,000,000. Somehow this is always missed. Even if Porsche sold 600 918's at $845,000 (we know no Porsche is leaving the lot with out options), that's still $507 mil revenue; healthily topping the P1's (as the CGT did 10 years before).

This whole price thing are largely manufactured fan boy arguments, covering up for their beloved manufacturer deficiencies. What matters to the actual manufacturer's, are revenues, units, production, goals, etc.. It's a business, remember.

For example: GTR fanboys love to brag it's a $100,000 car now. However, what they fail to tell us: Since Nissan's progressive price increases, the GTR went from unimpressive, to poor, to outright dismal sales with those price increase (1500-700 units).

Hey, they can still brag there a $100,000+ car now (as others about $1 mil), as their sales targets, customers and revenue continue to dwindle.

 

If the 918 was limited to 375 units at $1.2 mil each it would have sold out a long time ago.

 

this place should be renamed to accountingchat.com. really boring stuff!

 

This is absolutely correct - Porsche should consider making their limited production cars more limited. If only 500 people had the opportunity to purchase a 918 they would have been gone long ago and they probably wouldn't have needed to spend nearly as much time and effort marketing them. Flying people around Europe on private jets and renting race tracks in hopes of securing their deposit is a pretty expensive method to sell a car. They also could have waited until they were finally done with the car to give journalists a chance to play with it.

>8^)
ER

 

I'm sorry I don't agree . I owned both cars , tracked both cars , timed both cars ( sold the 12c and not the gt , for various reasons ).
If you call owning both and tracking the hell out of them multiple times with multiple drivers as subjective then we agree to disagree .

I must tell you ( without wishing to cause offence ) but modern tyres make a colossal difference ( for example up to 20 seconds at the ring depending on compound ). It is one of the game changers of recent times (along with electronics etc).

I'm afraid I'm the one here that has done it , not read about it . The figures are out there. Look at them , subtract the requisite percentages for a supersport or cup tyre and you have my observations to a "t" . It's actually very simple .
I'm talking about dozens of track times from several magazines , respected in the field , my own experiences and those of my friends , maths and you counter with a time on a TV show , with 2 different stigs , filmed in 2 different decades on a track that's not a track and where one car (the 12c) was developed .as for the sport auto ring time of the Cgt hvs clearly states track was wet in places and Cgt was capable of several seconds less , all those figures on crappy cgtps tyres . It's fair to say I may be onto something here , no?

 

Top Gear is just a TV show and can not be taken as serious reference.
So following the TG lap chart a Nissan GTR mk2 is faster than a more powerful and lighter Carrera GT (1:17,8 vs 1:19,8) ?
In which planet ? Mars ?
The Carrera GT is a real monster.
It's so engaging to drive that only skilled pilot can exploit its full potential
Without appoint the over 70 patens filed during his development.
That’s what Wtdoom is trying to explain and I fully agree with him.
Any Proof ?
The Carrera GT holded lap record of Italian magazine AUTO test track from 2006 (it’s a configuration of ‘’Langhe’’ circuit in Alfa Romeo Balocco proving ground called also ‘the little ring) and only in 2013 the Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Squadra Corse with Pirelli trofeo R and suspensions set-up was able to beat in 2013 the time of the Carrera GT.
The Mp4-12c, despite its P–Zero Corsa, set a slower lap time.
Just for reference, laptime video of 458 italia and MP4-12C during AUTO test.
Driver: L. Moccia (FIA GT pro-driver)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNiMN5BNaBU]Ferrari 458 Italia Hot Lap Balocco.mov - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzQY_qiB9x8]McLaren MP4-12C hot lap Balocco.m4v - YouTube[/ame]

 

Wow, such argue, much superior hypercar, very track time, so speed, many points, am fast, much value, so hybrid, such nurburgring, much sticky tires, so compare, very broken record, amaze, wow
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you always use legit logic, CGT is a sensational machine, last of 'analogue' supercars and one of the greatest ever, it's one of most my most desired cars. Just love it. I've only ever sat in one, not lucky enough to drive one yet. incredible engineering. form, function, function, form. love love the car. hence my name 'Scuderia 980' is a nod to two cars I want to own very badly

Ferrari 430 scuderia in TDF blu, grey stripes
Porsche 980 (CGT), Seal Grey

 

this thread is about all those things. you don't like it? stay out of here...simple! and thank you for YOUR contribution. my goodness posts like yours are annoying.

 

Frefan, sir, instead of complaining why don't you talk about your P1 ordering process, build etc so as to spice this thread up and to make less fortunate carnuts drool?

 

Porsche operates on a different business model. They done plenty of homework coming with up with the numbers that they gone public with. Public production target vs internal target. Obviously they need to sell more cars than P1 and LaF, and they've done that. The in-house target was 'over 600' cars, so if they reach 900 cars, great, if not, Porsche is fine with the number of cars sold so far. It's a loss leader. But of course they want to sell all cars as stated in public production run goals...no one wants less money than what's possible. Letting people drive 'unfinished' cars to try and push sales was a strategy of several possible. In the end, they've sold cars.

 

yup.

 

Food for thought indeed.

I know its probably been said here before? However, sometimes one wonders, if the sense of irony is ever lost on him, that part of the reason the "$1 mil plus" F1 sells for what it does now was due to poor sales and buyer unacceptance to begin with?

You can't make it this stuff up.

I to agree, and said earlier 'what does this stuff have to do with these cars performance, driveability, and reliability (mentioned, could be a smoke screen)'? Lets keep it the performance, test/track numbers, and new information indeed.

 

My I seemed to have touched a nerve. So which one of these fine vehicles are you getting for yourself?

 

What they should do then is follow Ferrari's lead - say you will build an arbitrary number like 500 and then produce another 100 or more on top of that. This gives the impression to the market of greater exclusivity while simultaneously maximizing the bottom line for Porsche. Who cares about integrity anyway?

>8^)
ER

 

I don't think they can do that. Ferrari is in a unique position when it comes to 'mind games', they can sell every hypercar they care to make and tell everyone they won't make any more, and then continue to build and sell a 'few' more.

 

Oh dear... I don't recommend suggesting that Porsche lack the ability to do something that Ferrari does. The crowd here will jump all over you for that.

>8^)
ER

 

touched a nerve? don't give yourself THAT much credit. posts like yours does nothing for this thread. you poke your head in just to gripe. fyi, I've had all 3 hypercars in my fantasy garage for some time now.

 

nah, it's all good. besides, it's an obvious, obvious fact. when it comes to peddling limited run supercars, Ferrari does the best job at squeezing the lemon.

 

I typically try to ignore you, but this is not a new car offered by Alfa Romeo. You have to own or buy a used Alfa 8C to start with - roughly $250K - then in traditional coachbuilt fashion it is modified extensively by Carrozzeria Touring Superleggera. It is those modification costs which push the price upwards.

This example of yours is the equivalent of referencing the 9ff GT9 as an example of a million dollar Porsche.

>8^)
ER