375+ # 0384

Nice thread

 

Here is an article written by Alecia Swasy for The Wall Street Journal. 12/5/1990

The article states: Mr Kleve inherited an insurance business and began collecting cars in 1939.

For the international readers a copy of the article is posted.

This article was reproduced with permission from The Wall Street Journal.

So, when was it that Mr. Kleve was a nuclear scientist as reported in the Bonhams press release?
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The US war effort in WWII. Specifically, the Manhattan Project.

 

Thanks for the info and reference to; The Manhattan Project.

The Manhattan Project Roll Call lists Mr, Karl Kleve as 9812th SED detachment

The SED's were soldiers, mostly draftees assigned to assist at Los Alamos, NM

So, how did this Nuclear Physicist rumor start?

 

I don't know. I first met him in 1990. At that point the cessation of hostilities was something in the distant past.

Best,
Dave

 

Here is some interesting reading material.

This article is reproduced with permission from The Western Hills Press
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Interesting.


http://cases.ohiocourtofclaims.gov/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/streamfile.p?Serial=050615000964885&Seq=1

 

And what's the motive this time?

Why not let the guy rest in peace? Oh that's right, there's a pile of money and a fancy car involved...

>8^|
ER

 

Whats the statute of limitations on the court case from '76. only 38 years ago

 

Karl Kleve was no scientist, nor a physicist.

Karl Kleve ​owned and operated​ an insurance ​company in Cincinnati that he ​inherited from his father.​ ​ Kleve started customizing cars in the late 1930’s using pieces and parts off scrapped cars from his junkyard collection. Although, all o​f the​ custom cars he built were subsequently spifflicated, none survived. Karl studied engineering at Ohio State in the early 1940’s and took a few postgraduate courses at M.I.T. in ​M​etallurgical ​E​ngineering, then, was soon drafted into the US Army during WWll. Near the latter part of his four year service​, ​Kleve was assigned to the 9212th ​S​pecial ​E​ngineer ​D​etachment (SED) of the US Army, he was one of 1,800 such service men stationed in Los Alamos, New Mexico where the Manhattan Project was producing war-time weapons. As the war ended, Kleve was honorably discharged from the Army, and returned to civilian life, ultimately, began acquiring - hoarding some interesting cars by purchasing them at scrap value. He parked the cars on various vacant lots he owned throughout the city that were strewn with junk and debris, some cars were stored in shanty garages. His properties became known as junkyard's outside of Cincinnati, causing intolerant ​​neighbors to ​flie​ complaints against him with the police, then ultimately sued him and won.

Kleve used a piece of curved glass in one of his homemade ​ ‘’project car creations’’ when rumors, along with many other untruths, credited 'Kleve' as having invented the curved glass for General Motors. Kleve had no association to the inventor of that glass process (PPG).

In 1952, there was an article in the Cincinnati newspaper that made several unsubstantiated claims to Kleve’s fame​, which ​later filtered into his obituary. The Kleve 'good doer' was introduced to this thread in order to make Kleve ​out to be "​the all American​"​ victim. The victim role he assumed throughout his life was a card played over and over again in the courts. The Cincinnati newspaper article questioned the validity of these entitlements mentioned by Kleve, although he did actually write a book on ​"How to ​C​ure ​B​aldness​". ​ The theory spoke of leaning forward at an angle in order to increase blood circulation. See post 25 in this thread.

Karl Kleve had a long history of mental illness. He spent several months in a Mental Health for psychosis prior to this incident. In April 1973, he was convicted and ordered to State prison for a Contempt of Court; for failure to comply pursuant a court order from the city to remove cars from his property. It was during his imprisonment that he became agitated and depressed, Karl's wife per recommendation from the Superintendent of the prison to have Karl committed to Longview Mental Health Facility in Cincinnati, later to become Cincinnati Mental Health Institute. A medical case history of mental illness was compiled by the State noting that Kleve had suffered this since WW​ll​. This is all mentiioned in one of Kleve’s pro se lawsuits (case 75-0309). ​ ​Kleve’s wife sought his confinement in the mental hospital by a court order stating,​ ​"he ​is a danger to himself and to others ​"​. Kleve was diagnosed with chronic brain syndrome, or Dementia, which is a progressive and largely irreversible clinical syndrome that is characterized by deterioration in intellectual function, behavior and personality changes with absence of normal consciousness and perception. This mental health sickness can include memory loss, disorientation, changes in personality, difficulty in carrying out daily activities and self-neglect.

Kleve escaped from the psych ward in 1973. Preceeding the escape, his car collection was disassembled by the city of Cincinnati and his wife had ​the properties​ cleaned up, consequently sold the Ferrari engine, and had hauled off m​ost​ of his junkyard to the city dump. A few years later in 1975, Kleve wound up suing the hospital for $5,200,000 unsuccessfully. It was one of the 200 such ​'pro se' Kleve law suits filed over the years against everyone for every reason. 🚫 winners.

At the time of his contemporary publicity in the the Wall Street Journal​,​ Kleve was sleeping in his 1973 Cadillac, and was described as a ​"​curmudgeon​"​. In 1988, Kleve had another run in with the law. The Court ordered his junk yard cleared one last time, and twenty cars were impounded. Kleve contested the Court order, disagreed with it, then appealed the decision, but, lost. In the later part of 1988, the property was stripped further of vehicles and debris. A few months later the scant remains of the Ferrari 0384am was plundered from the field in Westwood, Ohio. Left behind were remnants of the car that was stored inside a building under a stairwell.


Pictures - Karl Kleve's junkyard in the 70's - Cincinnati Auto Repair | Examiner.com

 

Great first post.
Thanks.

 

Rare Ferrari to be auctioned, legal issues swirl

Seems like OceanJoe is still causing trouble

 

You may be correct but the source for the article appears to be opposition's counsel. Likely not an unbiased source for all the information.

 

I read the whole story, and there is something very wrong.
After reading Post # 303, the attached Police Report DOES NOT show any VIN number.

Any Ferrari owner remembers his own VIN number, especially a short and significant one like this.

The question: How can a police report be issued without the chassis number of the Ferrari?
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I mean absolutely no offense to anyone in law enforcement or television...

But, my personal experience is that police reports and news reports are quite often lacking in information (or worse, contain incorrect information)...EVEN WHEN SAID INFORMATION WAS EXPLICITLY AND ACCURATELY SHARED WITH THE OFFICER/REPORTER.

 

It was a well documented car in America, even when Kleve disassembled and "stored" it.....

Note the valuation on that Police Report.

And that's not in Monopoly money....

 

Enjoy this.....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/E0GXfYNwk-o?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


http://myautoworld.com/autonews/6189

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9r2h4ponfdix4r/Motoring%20Ferrari%20375%20Edit3.mp4

 

Great little video! Seems like every vehicle of note should have a "puff" piece like that.

Also...this was a reminder of how I miss de Cadenet's "Victory By Design" series. With HD and the quality of modern production values, it'd sure be nice to have another go!

 

Here's an embeded copy of the video to make it easier for others:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0GXfYNwk-o]Motoring Ferrari 375 - YouTube[/ame]

When it ended I heard the auctioneers voice say in my head "Shall I open the bidding at Five Million Pounds? Who will give me Five Million?"

You certainly don't hear that too often but it seems a nice place to start for this one.

>8^)
ER

 

FYI this car is available at NO reserve.

Marcel Massini

 

The Ohio complaint states; “the claimant did not have the serial number at the time of this report”. Consequently, the vehicle could not be listed as stolen in the NCIC ( National Crime Information Computer) computer. Claimant could not furnish the required information.

On March 9,1989 a criminal complaint was issued by The United States District Court citing an almost identical description as written in Ohio. The lead Attorney for the defense questioned the missing ‘VIN’ and immediately contacted the Prosecution for proof of ownership. Proof of ownership could not be provided by the Prosecution or by the claimant, Karl Kleve. Claimant did not have documents confirming his ownership. No M.S.O., no Title, no V.I.N. number, no bill of sale, no insurance card, no ownership documents of any type could be produced. The stated value in the criminal complaint was 250,000 dollars.

In late 1988 / early 1989, the remains of a 1950’s era vehicle of Italian decent, was on a trailer at Global Motor Sports in Tucker, Georgia. Global was a race car fabrication and restoration shop located next to F.A.F.( the Ferrari dealer). The remains could not be identified after being viewed by many Ferrari owners. The Hulk sat on a trailer for 2 weeks at Global before the trailer was needed to tow a car. The remains were then relocated to a rented storage unit a block away.

A highly regarded Ferrari historian viewed the remains and identified the carcass as a 1954 Ferrari 375 Plus # 0384. He supplied the seller with the Ferrari build sheet, history of 375 Plus cars, pictures and chassis #’s of the 375 Plus, reference books with page #’s and other info. There was a document that alleged the Ferrari # 0384 was sold for 1,000 dollars and was then stolen off of a trailer 3 years prior. That information was found to be erroneous but prompted a full vehicle research with agencies including but not limited to: NCIC, GCIC, Green Township Police Department, Marietta Police Department, Georgia Dept of Motor Vehicles and Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles.

. What began as a beautiful Ferrari 375 Plus, delivered in running and driving condition, was reduced to a pile of rubbish. This hulk had been smashed, hacked, rusted, walked on, beat up, cut up, abused and abandoned, just like all the other rotting carcass’s in the Kleve junk yards. The alloy nose section of this Hulk was so distorted it could not even be used as a pattern. All of this damage and rust for the staggering sum of 50,000.00 dollars.

Then there was the dissection. The rear bodywork support frame section was hack sawed off the chassis. The intricate tubing of the roll bar was extracted allowing the rain to penetrate the tubing and accelerate the rusting of the frame. Someone with metal sheers extracted sections of the alloy fenders. It was obvious the Earth had swallowed the remains of this Hulk. There was wet dirt under and attached to the chassis as high up as a foot on the sides. It became very clear that the Ferrari remains were of an abandoned donor vehicle. All of the Kleve cars were nothing more than the destroyed remains of abandoned donor vehicles. As it turns out, this Ferrari 375 had been rescued, the other Kleve automotive objects were less fortunate and were sent off to the crusher by the authorities.
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Yes, I understand that to be the case, however I am sure they won't open the bidding at £1.00 and see where it goes. Generally at the auctions I've attended the auctioneer will ask the bidders in the room for a reasonable figure to start with.

>8^)
ER

 

Patently false on both counts.

 

It&#8217;s not that "there is something very wrong", it&#8217;s just that on the theft report Kleve did not surrender the chassis number according to his testimony in the Theft trial in Atlanta. At the trial there already existed confusion concerning the 0394AM and 0384AM numbers on the Kimberly/Kleve car. This was previous to the Swater&#8217;s sale, it was before Swaters was even involved. Kleve relied on experts to identify the car he had, because, he did not know. At the trial in 1989 it&#8217;s value was estimated to be $100k to $200k. They based that value by using the 1986/87 sale of 0398TF valued at $390,000 by Novak. While the 0384am value was established by valuation experts, Kleve was talking millions for the carcass he abandoned in the woods. As a consequence of the trial he received close to $40,000 of the recovered monies.

This confusion on values and chassis numbers is not so much a obfuscation. Mental illness is inherent in the Kleve family. Dementia is a loss of mental function caused by disorders that affect the brain: memory loss, reduced cognitive thinking, depression, neglect, impaired judgment, and other inappropriate behaviors. Karl had a track record of these apparent symptoms well recorded throughout court documents. So not recalling the chassis number of the Ferrari, or even forgetting he was paid by his agent is an understandable assumption. There was indeed implications in this thread of who was really the victim in this cinematic fiasco&#8230;. the rich and famous or the degenerate sleeping in his car with his only friend in the world, his dog.