Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

No worries I do understand end of the day no one can dislike a Carrera GT.

Mbn

 

Most important thing for fans of particular car manufacturer is what they believe in, not actual facts. They said they produced 499 LaFerraris but we all know they will squeeze a few more just because they can. Car enthusiasts, most owners, fans and journalists all think there are 499 of these special cars on the road/garage but it makes no difference to them that there are more.

Same thing how McL said they will beat every car on every track in the world then fold back and just say "we have gone below 7". Its not question did they, its question of do you want to believe they did. If you do then who cares about integrity anyway?

 

Nearly 25% more is hardly squeezing "a few more"

Your assumption that this contest is finished is significantly premature.

>8^)
ER

 

Porsche is an engineering company at it's heart with an entirely different business model than most of it's competitors. You know that. This why if you listen to most competitors (in most/all segments), they'll usually follow Porsche's lead and/or use them as a bench mark. They know Porsche will do the development, and submit a well engineered, reliable vehicle, that's also fun to drive. However, Porsche vowed to make a business model with any new innovative Supercar; thus the higher numbers.

Plus, the Germans usually have their own way of doing things anyway. Lol

 

Don't you think that depends on the numbers of vehicles?

What he's saying is, if Porsche would have said they were going to build 500 Carrera GT's, they would have sold everyone in an instant. Then build 100 more.

Obviously if you can sell 1100 $450,000 cars 10 years ago, you possess a very deep, established market for your vehicles, can sell 500 $600,000 cars rather quickly. You can say the same for 600-900 near $1mil cars, reduced to 375 (and maybe add 100 more later).

However, as I said before: Porsche is an engineering company that loves to make money. Porsche's has similar, as well as different goals.

They decided to never do that again (innovative, expensive Supercar), with out holding on to their shirt--somewhat, breaking even, or making money altogether. You know the German's can't usually do anything with out being innovative. Lol

They'll more do that with limited edition parts bin exercises (such as the GT3 RS 4.0) as their competitors do.

 

PS: Regarding the early testing with journalist. I'm sure in a very German kind of way, they feel that outsiders pointing out issues, is a good thing--allowing them to correct any problems they may have not noticed.

Of course it allows them time to market the car as well. However, I don't think Porsche really cares about a lot of this. It may be fodder on the Internet for some. But I'm sure they have their internal numbers (Porsche only said they would build UP TO 900, not 900 per se. And since they're built to order, not on spec, it's not like they have 200-300 laying around, losing money for them anyway). Of course, this doesn't include other engineering, innovation, manufacturing, exotic materials/methods, trickle down goals they may have as well.

But I get your drift, what you're saying.

 

yes, it does depend on the number of cars. Mac, Porsche, Ferrari all want to sell as many cars as possible but at the same time keep the cars as exclusive as possible (build/maintain cache as exclusivity is what helps sell the cars in the first place). Each company has different needs, and each operate with different strategy. Based on Ferrari's habit, they 'care' to make 499 because for them that seems to be the 'sweet spot'. I suppose the word 'decide' is the word I really meant. they can play mind games at this level because they have the luxury of being able to sell out cars instantly, pre production, sight unseen, etc. simply because wealthy people have great desire to own them (they have immense brand cachet.

instead of saying they'll build 600 cars, they just tell everyone that they'll make only 499 (even though they know they'll make way more than that, the lie is plausible because they're only hiding 50-100 more cars). this strategy keeps supply/demand in their favor. keep the cars 'rare'/exclusive in the minds of everyone (to not erode the cachet that got them here in the first place, the cachet they will again need in 10 years), so it adds 'value' to the purchase, and that makes it easier to sell out. Porsche can't do it this way. it won't work. They want to, and have to sell a lot more cars as dictated by their business model. Capping production around 900 cars ensures that 918 will be relatively rare/exclusive and it still allows any potential customer to actually become an owner, which is not something that Ferrari wants. Porsche doesn't need to play the game that Ferrari does "you are not worthy of being one of 499" (a game that they rely on to build and maintain cachet).

to the point you mentioned. Porsche telling the public that they will only make 499 918's (and then eventually selling 200+ more out of public view) would not likely have sold all the cars immediately or much sooner simply because they are Porsche and not Ferrari (Porsche has plenty of cachet but not the same kind as Ferrari), and then there's the impossibility of explaining away hundreds of extra cars. Their customer base would not be amused, great possibility of losing them for cars to come. It doesn't matter how fast 500 cars are sold, it just matters that 700 (or more) are sold eventually. Porsche wanted to sell 1200 CGT's, a lot more than Enzo's, so lying about a much more exclusive 500 car cap wouldn't work...no way to discreetly roll out and sell 500 extra cars and still maintain exclusivity. It could've worked if Porsche wanted to sell only 600 cars (which was simply too small of a number). Ferrari has a different desirability/supply/demand equation. The number of cars they want to sell are way different vs Porsche...who wants to sell a lot more cars. 'lying' like Ferrari isn't a necessary strategy, Still been able to sell upwards of 700 $900k cars. Decent cash flow.

 

There's not much to report really. But in 5 months or so I hope to have better news.

The ordering process has been quite straightforward. The order was managed by the same dealer/person I purchased a 12c and 12c spider from. All options are included in the base price, so its just a matter of picking off your choices for paint color, caliper color, wheels, interior, etc. etc. I'm impressed there's a fair amount of options to choose from (mostly cosmetic).

My build is a VO car, with every bit of carbon possible and several custom pieces. And an additional full bare carbon body. Alcantera/leather interior (black/black) with some custom stitching. Black wheels, polished calipers, trofeo R's. Pretty much what you see in Forza 5.

I've been to the factory twice, met all sorts of very important people, been invited to all kinds of incredible events (F1, Le Mans, private events), driven the car twice (once in hard rain which is a mind blowing experience). Owning one of these cars is not just for driving, but a lifestyle of driving.

 

I know this isn't the thread for this, but I need to correct a mistake I made during the 4.1 detour.

Here's part of what Shark Werks does to the 3.8 RS engine (from Excellence #218):

-- Stroke goes from 76.4mm to 80.44mm. New crankshaft is machined from a “solid billet of 4340 high-alloy-content steel with 12 radically profiled counterweights that are lightened and dynamically balanced [...] Omicron surface-hardening finish to 2.0 microns and [...] a Multi-Rate rod journal oiling system. [Hardening] material is strong but not brittle and is the best choice for street application. In direct comparison, the basic crank without its gear weighs about 0.25kg less than the stock item but is even stronger in tensile strength and is good for 9500rpm.”

-- Main bearings are OE, but connecting-rod bearings are bespoke. They’re a little smaller than stock and are made from a harder material to handle higher loads. Also coated with a special dry lubricant that’s meant to act as an oil cushion is case of drastic and sudden loss of oil pressure. The dry lube is supposed to last the life of the engine.

-- Minor improvements of the Metzger’s excellent oil spray system, just in case.

-- 104.5mm bore (4.0’s is 102.7mm). “This was literally the thinest wall I was prepared to use to avoid distortion. Initially, we considered using new barrels, but the cost was too high [...] so the new pistons sit in special upgraded iron liners in the crankcase.”

-- Teflon coated pistons from low volume manufacturer in Europe. Piston skirt length is just about stock, but domes are to their specs. Wrist pins are titanium. The three oil control rings are bespoke. Despite being larger, each piston-ring combo saves 20g over the 3.8 units.

-- Steel alloy Carrillos, which are almost as light as titanium options but will last the life of the motor.

-- 13:1

-- They shuffle-pin the two halves of the crankcase.

-- A1 Technologies H11 head studs, with a tensile strength of 260K psi. These seat the stud in the block. Fasteners are pre-loaded far accurate and repeatable torque sequencing.

-- They’ve noticed that Porsche upgraded the Metzger’s alloy for the 997s. Casting seems better, too.

-- Bespoke billet oil pump, for better flow and more volume.

-- Stroke increase allows for wilder cams for more top end power. Ignition mapping, fuel injection and variable valve timing smooth out the higher lift and overlap, keeping things civil for the street.

-- Excellent stock cylinder heads, valves and springs Shark Werks gas flow job, race-style valve guides for longevity. OE cam followers are good to 8800rpm, hydraulic lifters keep things maintenance free. (They’re out of room in the engine compartment, so OE heads and valves were more or less a must.) Could get a bit more power out of OE heads, they met their targets without dealing with the heads’ diminishing returns.

-- Bespoke airbox flows 62% better than 3.8’s, for 10 more hp. 3.8 plenum used -- for now.

-- Shark Werks race headers give the engine a bump and help top end power. They equalized exhaust pulses for better scavenging and consistent exhaust temps in every cylinder. Headers also reduce cat temps.

-- They also address standard Metzger issues:

-- Camshaft adjuster nut bolts.

-- Coolant pipes.

-- Plastic elbows that run to the oil coolers.

-- Clutch pressure plate rivets.

 

Just for fun.

Ferrari LaFerrari vs McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Sp…:

Ferrari LaFerrari vs McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 Spyder - 0-200 km/h - YouTube

 

Somewhat partial to this one myself.

Instagram

>8^)
ER

 

See.
Pretty much how Frefan's car will look...
Forza 5 Goes Nuts For The McLaren P1
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The LF is the most desirable car in this segment because :
1. It's the most difficult car to lay your hands on(buy one).
2. From historical experience, the LF will provide a good ROI or perhaps the best ROI.
3. It's a nice car of course.

McLaren is trying to earn this enviable position with the P1. If the P1 appreciate in price , the next successor of the P1 will have a nice queue, assuming McLaren limits the production a number probably not greater than 500. It's already a big achievement for McLaren to be able to sell 375 cars. They are the new kid on the block.

Porsche 918 has the highest production number of the three, but with the lowest price. In my opinion, it's will have a bigger challenge in having it's price appreciate in the future. Perhaps 918 number of cars is a bit too many. Even though the CGT fail to appreciate in price, there are 700 plus customers who love the 918 enough not to bother.

It's a no brainer to buy a car that others drool over and at the end of the day, still make a nice profit. That is the key to success in this market segment. Which car is the fastest on the ring, or faster acceleration, nicer cabin, etc, takes second place. Only to fans of respective brands they continue to argue and sell their opinion and i am not referring on the McLaren fans but fans of all three brands. Finally, this thread is great entertainment as well as to learn more about all three fantastic cars.

 

Short word about integrity.

Ferrari say 499 and will really build 650. Porsche say 918 maximum and but will never come close. McLaren say 375 and will build only 375.

In other word, your future wife Sofia say that before you, she sleep with 499 men, and really sleep with 650 men. Heidi say she always want to sleep with 918 men but she can only hope for this. Jane say she sleep with 375 men and is true, exactly 375 men. Which wife you will trust every thing and every time for to live happily with for rest of your life?

 

source?

source?


Besides, McLaren will built only 375 because they can't sell any more. The couldn't shift 500 cars, remember?

 

Funny but sometimes Sofia Is more exciting to do that than heidi and jane way of Life , don't be so prude !

 

That's not true. There's a long list of people that have put down a deposit in case someone dropped their P1 order. And the fact that they're already building a P1 'Track' should tell us that they're more than comfortable with selling 500 P1's if they wanted to.

 

a long list even....right. And McLaren is selling far less P1's than they can, because? Any symbolical significance to the number of 375? Or is that number strictly business, as in, any more wouldn't make much sense?

 

If you're going to marry a hooker, you don't ask how many men she slept with.

L

 

"To maintain exclusivity" as has been mentioned a few billion times already?

Funny you say that, Ferrari can definitely sell more than 499... No?

 

Deposites and spiked interest began after they lowered production number and marketing (NR lap, aztocar and c harris reviews) started pouring in. Until then there wasnt enough interest for 500 cars.

 

Frefan , that P1 looks absolutely stunning.

Do you mean you got an extra bare carbon fiber body you can exchange with the VO one?

 

because a productionrun of 375 is so much more exclusive than one of 500? You really believe that?

Why not a productionrun of 250, if exclusivity is such a big deal? Why not 5? Or better yet, none at all. Would have saved us a lot of BS.

I am not on the list for a LaF. I couldn't care less about how much they sell.

 

Wow! I'm getting P1 and applied for LaFerrari but wasn't accepted - not enough history with Ferrari I'd love to have both. They'll be amazing cars to drive and very sound investments. Both companies could have sold many more more cars than they did. Their restraint is admirable.

I drove the 918 last week. If I had unlimited money I'd buy that as well for top-down hyper-hybrid driving! I do think, after driving it, they're going to sell all 918 examples and eventually hold their price the way the Carrera GT is doing now. They told me they're already 75% through the 918 examples and that's prior to any customer deliveries. Once they're on the road and more folks get to drive them I suspect they'll quickly sell out.

For sheer driving excitement I'm confident the P1 and LaFerrari will be in a higher class than the 918. It's a super fun car to drive but it can't hide from its weight. It's just not something you can toss into corners like a 458, due to it weighing 500 pounds more, but it is still crazy fast. A friend once said the McLaren 12C "is like Ferrari and Porsche had a baby" and my feeling on 918 is it's like "The 911 Turbo S and the Bugatti Veyron had a hybrid baby". It's very fast, comfortable, different-looking (in a good way), and filled to the brim with technology designed to overcome its basic design weakness which, in this case, is weight.

But the LaF and P1 are in the same weight class as the 458 Spider so those should be crazy-fun to hoon around a track.

I drive the P1 in two weeks and the LaF later this year when a friend gets his and we take all 3 (918 another friend is getting, LaF and P1) to our local track (which we'll rent just for us) to try each other's cars.