Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Haha are you serious?

And you care about how many P1's have been sold. Cool story bro.

 

Nice. Now that should exciting!!

 

yup.

no, not at all. I care about the claim that McLaren could have sold much more P1's then are being produced. That seems unfounded at best.

 

Hahahaha. Burrrrrrrrrrned.

 

More 918 weight innacuracy
I think you may need to actually weigh a 458
With fluids

You're several hundred pounds off

 

I hear your logic, but his is not necessarily true.

Porsche has offered limited edition cars before (GT3 RS 4.0, 911 Classic etc.), and they were snapped up instantly with out a problem (virtually no wait). Didn't matter, if some of them may be considered over priced by outsiders (such as the 911 classic for almost $300,000), or it was going to piss off others that wanted them. They were gone in an instant. But those cars were usually parts bin exercises, so they could do that.

The reason why Porsche's business model is different with THIS TYPE of car vs it's competitors: Porsche wants to recoup their investment in all the new technology placed into it. Let's be honest, the 918 cost more money to build than the other two vehicles. However, with Parts bin exercises in the past, Porsche has sold every limited edition vehicles, and couldn't care less about those who missed out. So you have to draw that distinction.

If this was largely a parts bin supercar, they would have developed/offered less units, and sold it for a little more. That's been their history. They could have even sold it for more with less units (I'm not going to do the math, "what's done is done").

It's only AFTER the 959 (and years later when the decision was made) Porsche decided to sell a "lot of"--relatively speaking--their new heavy development co$t super cars to help offset cost.

 

Once you have a perception (particularly an erroneous one), it tends to cloud your thinking, influence your judgment.

Just ask Chris Harris.

 

Sport auto weighed 918 it was on the button
P1 was weighed at pagani factory at 1575 kg with half a tank and 70 kg driver( so about 1560)
A 458 is 1546 in ultralight Ferrari test spec ( on the scales ) and we still get this crap about the 918 being 500/600 pounds heavier.

People need to learn how to drive to actually feel a car and not confuse steering speed with weight .

 

Yeah, not only the weight; the acceleration numbers as well.

Folks read that the 918 would go 0-300 kph/186 mph in 19.9 seconds, and immediately called it slow. Then, when the others are tested at the same or worse time, they ignore it. And still call the others cars "faster" even when there's no definitive proof to justify it.

 

Yeah, you notice how after all the cries of calling the 918 a fat pig, etc., you don't hear any P1 fans or English reporters stating McLaren's weight claims were a bit optimistic.

Autocar recently stated 'the McLaren P1 should weigh 1490 Kilos'. So that means they didn't weigh it themselves and took McLaren's word for it (and it was still off, optimistic). SMH

 

I wrote the same weight difference between P1 and 918 several hundred of pages here, but who reads, hahaha
thanks for the clarification doom...

 

How is that inaccurate? 1,490 kg plus a 70 kg driver equates to 1,560 kg which is approximately the same as weighed at the Pagani factory.

And I agree about 918's weight, I've always corrected people but no one seemed to listen.

 

I think I saw, was aware of it (what you wrote, and the false weight discrepancy/perception).

But as you said; no one reads, comprehends, and remembers (or wants to). Haha indeed. Lol

 

To be fair mac quoted dry weight and will all fluids n petrol etc over 1500 k is spot on to their figures
It's the press that know less than the enthusiasts that cause confusion

 

Don't forget to add back the 50 odd litres of fuel from the under half a tank ( 50 k?)
No ones saying its inaccurate , it's spot on to macs dry weight figures ( give or take ) it's just funny how things get conveniently skewed by your cultists

 

Fair enough/touche Mark.

However, I don't remember if Autocar clearly made the distinction it was the P1's dry weight or with fluids, driver, etc.? You know most readers don't know/pay attention to that stuff.

Remember, media's always quoting the 918 Weissach's weight (albeit from Porsche) at 1600+ kilos, with fluids, etc..Wasn't the P1 supposed to weight 1300 kilos (or whatever; some rounded down greatly), and 500 lbs less than the 918? Isn't' that what many were saying for a long time? Many "legitimate" blogs were even tossing around those numbers (though they conveniently forget now, of course). Lol

I just found it odd that Autocar didn't weigh it themselves (I mean they were on a track; should have been a scale there somewhere). I also find it odd, that none of the British media have corrected some of the wilder weight claims of many P1 fans (many thought, the REAL weight would magically only increase by 20 or so kilos; while the 918's would balloon 50-100 more). You know what I'm saying Mark?

No one ever corrects, clarifies anymore. So even now, you have people (on that German Car Forum--that was recently linked here--for example) trying to figure out how the 918 Weissach performed so well--especially high speed acceleration-- in AMS vs the P1's Autocar test, not realizing the the two cars don't weight that much different to begin with. SMH

 

Porsche did not sell 1100 at $448k. I'm sure many were sold at that number, but they sold at a discount while sitting in dealer showrooms.

 

Hahaha a good thread summary thusfar.

 

And you know this how????

To my knowledge Porsche did not discount.

Either way, it wouldn't take away from the fact that the 10 year old Carrera GT made more $$ in sales for Porsche than the P1 today. Let's not forget that.

I only brought this up, since so many many McLaren Cultist love to mention Porsche "struggling" to sell 1110 Carrera GT's (though McLaren couldn't sell 500 P1, but who's counting), so I was illustrating the bottom line to manufacturer's vs Internet fans, as that "struggling" Carrera GT made more money. Funny how facts sometimes get into the way.

Of course this is all nonsense. As the Bugatti Veyron "struggled" to sell 50 cars a year. However, that was great for the resale market (if not for Bugatti; though tight demand allowed them to increase their list price as well, though units moved remained small).

 

At first I was going to disagree and say that historically by setting MSRPs relatively low to market value, and producing less than overall demand, they don't squeeze the lemon near enough.

But then I remembered that extra virgin olive oil is the best, and the businesses that do a second or third squeeze and then apply chemicals to extract the last few ounces really do ruin their product.

 

Um, because I saw there were literally cars sitting unsold at dealers, people actually bought them under sticker, and there were ads for brand new cars on autotrader at a discount?

How old are you? Were you not around back then? It was not that long ago.

 

I'd love to see how many pennies M P 4 - 12 Cs are going for these days

 

Perception is not always reality my friend (I should actually be asking "how old are you").

Either way: How does this take away from the fact that the CGT made more in $ales than the P1 did?

I'm too bored (with this discussion) and busy--in general/at the moment--to get into the numbers, accounts and specifics.

Still awaiting your answer.

Now stop with the deflection please.

 

I don't know. I'm just correcting you on your statement (and then I suppose your subsequent maths) that they sold 1100 CGTs at sticker price. They are not at all like Ferrari's supercars which sell out in an instant and immediately trade well above MSRP, but instead appeared more like any other consumer car you would buy at a dealer.

Is the CGT a great car? Absolutely. Did Porsche make too many of them? Absolutely, unless you want to pick one up second-hand for a low price.

Is there some other question that you had? If so, please re-ask the question.

 

Sigh. This is a deflection.

1) What does that have to do with the FACT that Porsche made more sales revenue on the GCT than the P1??????????????????????????

That was the point/take away. It bad enough we gotta talk about this stuff in between good car info, news, accounts.

2) Are you certain of this (deep discounts by Porsche)????????????????????????????

3) I'm well aware of the CGT sales process (it was quite nebulous in one of it's production years for several reasons). However, whether 10, 50, 100, 200 of the 1100 sold between $350,000-$450,000 by Porsche (and I don't think they did; you may be confusing the secondary market), it wouldn't take away from the fact Porsche still generated a higher sales revenue on the CGT than the P1.

You realize EVEN if Porsche sold every CGT for $350,000 (let's take your deflection at an extreme), that would still be $385,000,000 in revenue vs the P1's $412,000,000 (which of course doesn't count for inflation). And even YOU wouldn't think that Porsche sold 1100 CGT's at $350,000 (if any were sold at that price). This is why your breathless point/defection is rendered quite meaningless.

Now, can we move on (I will)? You're continuing to make no sense. (and if you knew Math, and the GCT sales process you'd understand why). Porsche had a higher $ales revenue on the CGT than McLaren for their P1.

Let it go.