Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

anyways...

 

Ok, so you have three questions?

1) I'm not sure if your facts are really facts, but instead rough guesses based on rough assumptions.

2) Yes. I don't think they were selling new-from-porsche in the 300s, though, but certainly tens of thousands off sticker price.

3) I'm not sure if this is a question, but I'll say that I would certainly hope that a business that's been selling cars for as long as Porsche should be able to make more money than a relatively new boutique manufacturer.

Also, just to be clear, I thought that Porsche made more than 1,100. Something like 1,200 or 1,300, but I might be mistaken. So yes, I think they probably did have more gross revenue on the CGT than McLaren is getting on the P1, plus, ~2008 money is worth more than ~2014 money. Still, I would imagine that McLaren grosses more than 1.1M on each of their P1s with options, and the P1 program isn't over yet. Also, I would imagine that McLaren nets a much larger percentage than did/does Porsche.

Anyway, I don't really understand why we're discussing who grossed more money. If that's somehow material, I suppose the Ford F150 is the best supercar money can buy.

 

Oh I see your revision now. I get the feeling that you're the one not letting go. Arguing gross retail sales on rough math is a really trivial... but I suppose it's a good argument when defending the marketing strategy of a car that had to sit on dealer lots for years.

 

SMH like a wet dog.

There was no revision (outside of better, syntax, sentence structure, etc.). Of course!

That was my whole point to begin with. I shouldn't have to even explained it to you (that's one of the things I meant when I said I was too bored, etc., to break it down). Duh.

What's the point in arguing CGT discounts? Was it 10 cars; 50, and if so how much (if any), especially if it didn't matter?

It was just too nebulous a road to go down, when we can clearly ascertain that Porsche attained more $ revenue with the CGT than the P1 (even now which you admit). Pay attention/read next time.

This came out of the discussion; 'McLaren fans may wanna be more concerned about Macca's financial viability than trying to proclaim themselves as some longtime godly road-sports car maker of great vehicles; while criticizing others'. This is why finances came up. That was the take away.

 

The carbon is probably a few years out but when its ready I'll exchange it with the VO and keep the VO in my garage as a backup/spare. I intend to do some tracking with it.

 

There's a huge difference between cars that sell out immediately with waiting lists and cars that languish on dealer lots for years and have to have subsequent production canceled.

You tried to argue by your rough math that somehow the CGT was some instant classic and a bigger success than the P1. However I will admit I may be mistaken as you type so much stuff that I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue.

Your condescension doesn't do you any favors.

 

This is a good point doom; when I drove the 918 I thought it 'felt' heavy but not in the literal sense. Part of it was the brakes (which I know they are working on), part of it was the AWD. Don't get me wrong I love the car and its crazy fast for sure. I'm sure you'll love it.

 

It's desperation.

97 posts in less than a month on FChat ( all in this monumentally important thread, mind you ) attempting to defend his precious Porsche.

He better get used to it too, because McLaren's Project 13 is coming to Geneva next year. He can be glad they only plan to make about 3,000 per year, but it is aimed squarely at converting more Porsche customers.

>8^)
ER

 

Yep!!!

Looking forward to seeing the real P13.

 

Your relative daftness does you no favors.

You continue not making sense.

Perhaps I may come off condescending if someone can't [apparently] read, comprehend, and/or is being obstinate, especially when I'm busy? Sure!

My "rough math" had nothing to do with the CGT being an instant classic. That was another argument/point. It was simple math/bottom line. And I explained the origin/reasons in my last post to you. Maybe you're memory/retention or comprehension is lacking (as you acknowledged)?

You reiterate my point again: "Selling out" is a hollow, desperate fanboys argument (for a multiplicity of reasons). Whats the criteria; number, production, marketing philosophy; internal targets, etc.? This is especially true when we're talking about a vehicle that moved 1100 units at [roughly] $450,000, 10 yrs ago. I guess you feel F1 and Veyron were humongous sales failures then?

So if Porsche would have said, "we're going to build up to 600 CGT's, then built 1100, that would have made you happy?........

I can't even waste anymore key strokes on this/some of what you said (condescending enough)?

 

Yeah, I'm sure they're quaking in the boots over there in Stuttgart.

They better pack it up now.

SMH

 

All 3 of these cars are hideous because the proportions are off on all of them.

Beauty is not subjective and it is not in the "eyes of the beholder".

True beauty has always been about the right proportions not because of someone's opinion.

Car's are beautiful when they are proportional in relation to their parts, and they work the best when part's are matched together. ie too much HP is just as bad as too little hp. Quality of the power delivery is more important then quantity. The same goes for car design.

All 3 of these cars are totally off in many many ways, and more of monstrosities then anything else.

What was Ferrari thinking with that nose they made for example? It throws the entire car off.

 

Wow.

So tempting to use the ignore button but then I'd be losing a source of free entertainment.

 

SMH

It's amazing how with some folks there are NEVER any "facts (at least when they're perceived to be against McLaren)". Why must everything be argued (facts, logical conclusions, actual events, test data, etc., doesn't matter)? Just think; say nothing, and let things go sometimes.

I simply state, 'ironically the CGT 10 years ago generated more revenue than the P1 today', and it takes 10 post before the McLaren fan can acknowledge or admit this is true (with much histrionics and dancing in between of course). Why (prayers)!? Lol

As Rasheed Wallace may say if he was reading this, "Math Don't Lie". It's simple.

And then they wonder about you being "condescending"/impatient with them in return, when ironically so many of them are usually [known as] smug, obstinate and condescending when discussing all things McLaren and P1 (minus a few; not generalizing). Many of them/they are known as the cult/religion", such as GTR cultist.

Personally, I don't care (to each his own/Freedom of expression). However, you can't make this stuff up. Amazing.

 

lol.

Let's put things into perspective.

-McLaren's gross revenue in one year

Porsche gross revenue in 12 days.

-Number of cars McLaren sells in one year

Porsche sells in 4 days.

-McLaren just managed to turn in a profit after a few money losing years

Porsche has the highest profit margin of any car company in the world.

_McLaren is building a sports car in the $150K range, 911 Turbo S territory.

Porsche is building V8 (twin turbo or w/918's V8) mid engined supercar in the 458, 650S territory.



***** I think McLaren is a fantastic company making great cars and has a loyal customer base. *****


But Porsche scared? ha.


----- The Winner : Car Enthusaists !!


(Porsche needs this V8 supercar. It's becoming too much of a sedan and SUV maker and losing some of the high performance sports car identity to Ferrari, McLaren & Lamborghini.)

 

Absolutely!!

Especially your last three lines/sentences about McLaren being a fantastic company; loyal fan base; car enthusiast winning, etc., (by the way; can you highlight, quote or bold on this thing)? Lol

PS: I think that's what the 960 is for/will be after they close on the 918 (whether it's NA or turbocharged is another manner). They certainly have that mid engined (which is probably how they'd describe it) 8 cyl market on their radar.

Ironically, all those Cayenne's, Macan's and Panamera's (along with the 918 chassis, knowledge and engine) will allow them to enter the market with out feeling the pressure of setting excessive goals/targets. I'm sure if they sold 1000 they'd be happy (regardless if it's 1500, 2000, 2500, etc.).

We'll see?

 

Do yourself a favor and leave before it falls off.

>8^)
ER

 

Done. Thanks.
Yes, 960 engine has not been announced/finalised yet. It may have the 918's ultra lightweight 608hp 9200rpm V8 or a tt unit. And its still few years away.

 

Yes, lets do that.

Porsche delivered their first production car in 1948

McLaren Automotive delivered their first in 2011.

With a 63 year head start are any of your other stats all that surprising in comparison - no, not one little bit.

>8^)
ER

 

And yet, people in the McLaren camp want it to be seen as comparable to Porsche...

 

What is really amazing is that the three best cars in the world generate such a boring discussion...

 

When it comes to the capabilities of the products, most definitely. It would be ignorant to think otherwise.

>8^)
ER

 

That's the most boring post of all.

 

Yes, but I'm talking about brand value & heritage.

This discussion oscillates wildly between camps' defense of products and brands. The McLaren brand has a looooong way to go before it's in the same league as Porsche & Ferrari. But as you said, the products are quite impressive, and definitely comparable.

I just wish the discussion was more centered around the products, as the title implies.

 

Your response is all the credit I need to give myself. So tell me what these cars feel like since you are so capable of telling us about these vehicles.