Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

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Brilliant!

 

I call bs on your "observations" , sorry but I trust my driving better than I trust yours .
Similar nonsense on the mac forum , I just gave up with that place .

Too much " you will be one of us, you will be one of us " haha

 

Btw,
Doom, any info when to expect next 918 performance test?

 

I know evo are planning a la Ferrari special .
918 will be with autocar soon , currently "no p1 supertest expected" for sport auto . Everyone trying to get all 3 together for showdown . Top gear p1 918 test has been "delayed".
I don't have anything for the American mags , sorry

 

Class act that ...

The front plate says "new batteries for breakfast"? Lol

 

LOL.

If someone manages to get all 3 cars on track, I hope they do a race of 5 or 10 laps, just to see how the hybrid power units hold up. One or two of these cars could be nothing more than one lap wonders.

 

Touché.

 

He should have pressed the "hot lap" button for extra boost ;-)

 

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These are irreplaceable million-dollar cars and we're not the manufacturers of them but rather folks who bought them with our own money. The cost of renting the track is negligible compared to the cost of repairing the cars if some journalist were to damage one of them trying to push it beyond its limits. These aren't Corvettes or Vipers. You can't just wreck one and order another one just like it to replace it.

If Ferrari, Porsche and McLaren want to do a comparison test they can supply their own cars for that. We just want to learn & enjoy the cars away from road traffic and speeding tickets.

If there's going to be wear and tear on my car trying to do the fastest lap possible it's going to be from MY seat in the saddle enjoying every moment of the depreciation . However none of us are professional drivers so we won't be racing each other and we won't be timing ourselves.

 

Well there you go. I call bs on you calling bs on my observations and I trust my driving better than I trust yours.

BTW In that same vein, I trust my opinion better than some else's opinion simply because it is AN OPINION. I said how it felt to me. You can write all the words you want on an Internet forum but it doesn't change how something real and physical felt to me that day on the track. Sorry if that somehow offends you. You're welcome to come away feeling differently. I won't even call bs on you if your conclusion is completely different from mine.

So chill out. I said I loved the car but that it felt heavy to me compared to what I normally drive.

 

Imitation is the highest form of flattery:

First Ferrari LaFerrari Replicas are in production

The guy in the pic is Frank Stephenson.

 

Obviously, I can't speak for Doom MarkNC.

And certain it's your opinion (a point which can't be argued). Everyone has one indeed. That's how I felt when I read your experience, thus had nothing to say. So true. And I agree wholeheartedly.

Saying all that: It appears Doom may have felt you made up your mind while prejudiced or at least prematurely--with other cars to test, and/or he's waiting for you to say something similar about the P1 (not sure if you said you're going to test the LaFe), which weighs similarly to a Weissach Package 918. He most likely feels, 'weight is not the issue', cause most of the cars mentioned are of similar weight.

For a very long time many folks/partisans erroneously thought the P1, LaFe would weigh 1300 and 1400 kilos fully loaded, while the "portly" 918 Porker would weigh 1800+ kilos when presented. He also pointed out the similar weight of the 458.

Of course we should all know now the alleged large weight discrepancy to be proven false (with the handling, feel, transitions and steering of the 918 described as excellent in Motor Trend, AMS testing, etc., breaking all type of handling, track records). So he probably wonders (besides his own driving experience/ Doom "Butt-o-Meter" of said vehicles, which may disagree with yours obviously) if 'maybe you were a bit prejudiced and premature'/Will you say the same about other similar weight cars to be tested'?

My two cents/observation on his post.

Enjoy, what ever car you choose (if any of them)!!!!!

 

This is silly. Not sure what made you post a comment like that, but it's pathetic to say the least.

 

Hi All!

Does anybody know which carbon fiber type do 918 and P1 use? I only know that Porsche use RTM process for monocoque and pre-preg process for engine cradle, but sorts of CF - t700, or t800 or t1000 is unknown for me. The same is for P1.

Now about much discussed amount of 918. How I see that as a specialist in logistics.

Firstly, there is no doubt that development program for 918 is much more expensive than for both P1 and LAF.
Most of 918 parts are bespoke and you can't find them on other porsche model range. So, there is partly the reason why they had to make 918 units. To make the final product you need suppliers - pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts, gears, computers and etc etc etc. Almost nothing of this produced in-house. You have suppliers that can make it better, because they are specialists in it. What you have to do when you need a totally bespoke final part? You need bespoke components! To make new bespoke components supplier must set up new production lines, find new suppliers for raw materials and on and on, lots of processes. So, thats why suppliers doesn't want to provide bespoke details for, for example, 500 final products (cars), they invest a lot, so they want more output - 1000 for example. Also, making a bespoke part for very very limited amount of final products doesn't guarantee the same quality. Thats why it is so risky to provide bespoke components for LaF or P1 for example... Suppliers simply couldn't provide the same quality as for more mass produced components. Thats why, most of parts of P1 and in fewer case for Laf are not bespoke and shared from other models. Simply because supplier and manufacturer "know" these parts, they have experience. In case of Porsche, because of more units, suppliers could provide bespoke part with guaranteed quality, because there are more parts to be manufactured and so there is the sense to make new lines for these parts. Of course, for even 918 units it is very very expensive to build new manufacturing lines (on supplier part), but because of more final cars, suppliers could provide the quality. Only thanks to Porsche plans to build 918 units this car can be bespoke and high quality, otherwise it had to share components from fellow models.

Maybe I am wrong, but it is how I see it from supply chain point of view.

 

The V12 of the LaFerrari shares only the block with the engine found in the F12. Everything else in there is bespoke, hence the 9250 RPM red line and the 800 HP. Mahle procures the pistons by the way. Not to mention the unique hand-laying process for the carbon chassis. I am certain that McLaren can make similar claims.

 

About pistons possibly, but I don't see anything superspecial about hand-laying process with carbon fiber (it is known since 80-s - carbon fiber is toray, company which makes all kings of CF in production scales - they provide all types of CF to automakers, aeronautics, space and etc). Also, it is the question where the quality is better - using "production" RTM method or hand-laying.

 

Ferrari say that the production RTM method wasn't good enough and that's why they used the F1 method. But I am no expert...

 

LaFerrari review (AUTOMOBILE):

"With RTM, you don’t get any better weight reduction than we already achieve with our advanced aluminum technologies, Franco Cimatti, the Italian-born, American-educated Ferrari veteran engineer who’s in charge of vehicle concepts and pre-development.
For LaFerrari’s chassis tub and body panels, Ferrari prefers pre-preg carbon fiber, which is pre-impregnated with resin before it’s sent into the same huge autoclaves that bake up all the pieces for the F1 race cars. “With pre-preg, we are taking a lot less resin for the ride,” quips Cimatti, “because our autoclave techniques allow us to squeeze out excess resin during the baking.” A particular type of extra-high-strength carbon fiber referred to as T1000 is used both in the F1 race cars’ nose cones and in the structure of the LaFerrari’s doors for crash protection. T800 UD refers to a type of unidirectional carbon fiber that Ferrari carefully places in the same direction as principal loads in key sections of the car’s structure.
In the end, the LaFerrari’s chassis tub and roof, which are bonded together with resins and mechanical fasteners, weigh all of 176 pounds and provide 27 percent more torsional rigidity and 22 percent more bending stiffness than the carbon-fiber structure of the Ferrari Enzo.
"

 

While I am hesitant to dignify this often ridiculous discussion with a response, I find the urge strangely irresistible.

I had the opportunity to drive the 918 at Porsche's behest, and I found the car to be brilliant. It is a towering achievement and a very devoted and sincere attempt to push hybrid engineering forward. The car is beautifully styled, sounds like a demon banshee from Hades, and cracks off shifts significantly faster than any car I have ever driven. It is the natural, modern successor to the Carrera GT (a car I just sold yesterday, believe it or not). To denigrate the 918 before experiencing it makes as much sense as rendering an opinion on a book one has not read or panning a movie one has not seen.

I am a Mclaren Fan Boy. I own a 12c and am on the (hopeless) waiting list for a P1.

I am a Ferrari Fan Boy. I've special ordered and enjoyed two 458s in the past two years.

I am a Porsche Fan Boy. My dd is a 991 C4S, and the Carrera GT I owned brought a smile to my face with each screaming gear change.

How a misguided devotion to one brand can result is the ridiculous hatred evinced in this thread is either scary or comical, I can't decide which. I can only presume that this is a natural result of a whole lot of people making judgement calls very early in the game. I wonder, if in the cool grey light of dawn, when the true nature of these cars is known, whether some of the comments on this thread will be seen differently, and perhaps with a degree of regret by their authors...

 

P&R))) Whats funny, they use aluminium for engine cradle. Yep, they can't use CF (because of Porsche), but why not titanium)))

 

In addition, Carrera GT monocoque weights 220 pounds and that was 10 years ago. Made by prepreg method with Aluminium and aramid honeycombs.
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appreciate the response mark, could you comment on the second part?

 

hey peloton,

those instagram vids that were posted before of BC's pur blanc and the p1, are you posting more like that anywhere else? if you would pm me the link id appreciate it, would like to watch more clips/vids of them in the wild.