Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

the braking is helped by regen. Which P1 lacks.

 

That's clear to me but the max breaking force is limited by locking of the wheel. And there it shouldn't make any difference if the breaking force comes from regeneration or braking discs, or am I wrong? I remember a review where was said that in point of braking the p1 is much better than the porsche's (not brake feel). This is why I'm wondering about the results (also p1 claimed to be lighter)

 

Thanks S-Mario

What you provided earlier, and just now is fine. We'll take what we can get. Lol

The statements you provided above don't surprise me. The 918 as far as I could gather is well balanced, and the P1 may not be as well built/executed (i.e. neutral handling, balanced power delivery, progressive brakes, etc.) as some may have wished; at least based off what I was hearing.

I don't know which car had the best lap (I'm not trying to make assumptions, despite the apparent performance figures and confidence level being in the 918's favor), but I'm Glad you clarified "easier to drive" from Ford, apparently meant the Porsche was more predictable, confidence inspiring and balanced, especially from a British reporter. That doesn't necessarily mean boring, less fun or even less of a challenge (as you can attempt to go faster/harder on each next corner or lap with building confidence).

Just curious. Not sure if I missed this. Was the GT3, and any other vehicles in this test opposite the 650?

 

There was a lot of stuff said in earlier reviews (particularly by over zealous British ones) that were a bunch of hogwash, premature or wholesale opinions, so I would take that stuff with a grain of salt and not hold on to them too much.

Now we have real cars to drive, test/measure and examine, so it's harder to make stuff up now.

 

La Ferrari 0 to 200 , looks like around 7 seconds ?

0-200 km/h : Ferrari LAFERRARI insane acceleration (Motorsport) - YouTube

 

7.1 seconds but i'm sure the macca fanboys will find a lot more. And the journalist Is surely a cheater payed by ferrari in order to hidde their inferior cars.

 

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We'll have to see if other testing gets that time? But that sounds crazy fast, off hand.

 

Because it is 7.3s according to my stopwatch...

If they were so confident from their products (Speciale in this case), they would have sent the car as it is, without having to test the car there and gather data + tweak it prior to the test.

 

The tank Is full, not bad for a single try..

 

Same with the P1 in the MT acceleration run.

@5:25
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj29plvUkqA]2014 McLaren P1: The World's Quickest Production Car! - Ignition Ep. 108 - YouTube[/ame]

Anyway, I'm not here to argue which one is faster. They are all blindingly quick and within tenths of each other.

 

Mark remember that's off the clock , not v box or gps .

 

Tanks are full in all the main tests matey , sport auto , auto car etc . In fact the autocar and sport auto tests ( of p1 and 918) were evn 2 up

 

Not only that; but the Motor Trend example he gave was the fastest of the P1 testing we've seen so far (another simple test). Other testing hasn't been so flattering (albeit very good/excellent). And of course we don't have much on either, for either side to be slinging mud. Lol

Further test needs to be done on both. And we look forward to it.

Great cars!

 

That's true, but speedos on these cars are not awfully off the mark. Anyway, that's all we get from Ferrari since they didn't let MT use their data acquisition hardware.

 

The other test done by Autocar was with a passenger on board. I used this video because it's the only one that we have and in response to the "full fuel tank" comment.

 

True (if you were being facetious).

Instrumented testing would be better, more accurate.

But you take what you can get (till you get more). Lol

 

No Flame.

To S-Mario, Doom, Ferkan, Argosy, Vlad0, Wolfgang5150, etc..

Question: How long it takes Chris Harris and Steve Sutcliffe to acknowledge/admit they were wrong about their rash prejudgments and over the top statements, if ever, at all?? Lol

They sure are not looking too good or credible (remember what they said about the two cars relative speed, handling, acceleration and braking) the more the 918 and P1 are submitted to legitimate testing. Can't say they're not aware?

Normally good drivers, reporters (and two great cars). But "Whew Boy" on this one! SMH/LOL

 

Gotcha/Thanks Mark! Smile

 

Sounds to me like it takes more time to get the best out of the P1. Maybe it will be the faster car once you have the seat time. Driving a high downforce car is a completely different style of driving. And its easier to go quick sooner in awd cars. So who knows what the true potential of these cars are. A true test would be the factory test drivers for each car same day same track. They are the ones who have the seat time to exploit the full capabilites of these cars.

 

Think you are being too kind , Italian and electronics are not usually good bedfellows ( flame suit on)

They won't , they drove the cars separately and the p1 is just more dramatic and must have felt faster to them . It's not malicious mate , it's merely opinions at the end of the day .
Disappointing butt dyno performance though , maybe they genuinely didn't know the 918s they drove in Spain weren't full power cars ? That would certainly explain it .

" It also means in a real head to head with a pro the winner will be circuit dependent - they're that close."
Basically , what I've been saying since day 1

 

Wow! Quite kind and diplomatic Sir, Mr. Doom.

I gotcha ya. You're feeling merciful at the moment (and I guess it's still Sunday, wherever you are). A man of god I see?? lol

Not knowing about the cars in Spain?? Shoot! Aren't they experienced professionals? Lol. We knew.

Yes, it's their opinion; which I have no problem with in principle (whatever their take). However, they did make some very forward speaking, eyebrow raising statements, seemingly out of line with common [journalistic practice] and sense. I'll leave it there.

Lastly, I think this whole "easier car to drive", is just another way of saying "the 918 is the more balanced vehicle". At least in their testing.

It's that, and/or trying to safe face as British reporters for the performance of the P1 (which appears great by the way) vis a vis their head to head compared to what we were led to believe by the likes of the aforementioned Harris and Steve Sutcliffe. Note: I'm not saying that's untrue. However, this comes up plenty times during reviews/track testing, and it's usually held as a negative toward the less predictable handling, more high strung/jittery vehicle. All of a sudden, when they find "The Fat Pig" Porker is actually a more predictable handler than the "400-500 kilo lighter", "1300 Kilo" Macca (not them; internet chatter, many bloggers, and even some ahem "journalist"), we need Chris Goodwin and Mark Lieb to ultimately test, extract the best performance from them? Whoa! Aren't they good enough drivers for 90% of owners?...Wasn't that always the knock against jittery at the limit "ass engined" 911's of yore, when they--pun intended--"showed their ass (before Porsche started dialing it back)" vs the more stable, predictable mid engine types during track testing? Funny.

No. Wasn't really expecting an apology or back track from Sutcliffe, Harris. I was really just being silly, and wanted to hear some comments in light of another measured test in sharp contrast to what they boldly exclaimed. You Know What I Mean, Talking Bout Doom (in the inimitable voice of the late, former "Different Strokes" American TV Sitcom Star, Gary Coleman)!? Lol

Enjoy your weekend.

 

Here is a scanned-in snippet (*) from the report outlining observations during the two days on track, the rest was spent on roads. From what I can tell, the cars did not get weighed, so the weight difference is smaller than the author suggests. The sentence about the wet morning near Brussels refers to him spinning the P1 on a belgian motorway. He was part of the crew that accompanied Clarkson to Spa.

OT: Carmaven, there were 16 cars in total in that test (new M3, Jag F-Type R, Cayman GTS and many more), but no 991 GT3, instead they brought a 991 Turbo S. It was 1/2 a second slower than the 650S (1:55.0 mins) around that track.

(*) sorry for the seemingly small file, the original .jpg was 2.4 MB large, exceeding the 0.8 MB attachment size limit, so it was automatically downsized...
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If this car was naturally this slammed, I would seriously reconsider my favorite!:


http://fastestlaps.com/photos/porsche_918_spyder_52a313b50cd39.jpg

 

That is awesome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think the 918 is a fantastic supercar and anyone would be lucky and happy to own one but some recent postings on this thread left me wondering. I made a few "notes" over the last couple of days regarding the "Porsche told the driver to back off"comment.

SALIENT POINTS
A - Original 918 Nordschleife video is no longer available online (but I have a copy of it). The original video does show 00:06:57 at the finish but may have been timed from another point.
B - A newer Porsche video shows a different run
C - The new video shows driver changing engine mode on "map switch" at start of final straightaway, the original video does not
D - New video shows slower time, original video shows faster time by at least 2-3 seconds
E - Original video shows driver using e-Boost on final straightaway but it was very low

SUSPICION
The Porsche driver's comment is not backed up by the evidence.

I believe the original reference to the Porsche driver's claim was from this post from johnes71.

VISUAL EVIDENCE
A - The original video does how (a finish line time of 00:06:57:xx) and is clearly dated Sept 4, 2013, the day Porsche claims the record was set. Whereas, the newer video on the Porsche website conveniently shows no timing and the sun's position looks a bit different.

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B - The videos were taken at different times and of different runs. The upper screenshot is of the newer video on the Porsche website. Notice the morning mist in the original video is absent in the official Porsche video and shows a different time of day. Porsche said the record run came in the morning.

The unique treeline identifies the location to be near the end of the course (see the course map in lower photo).

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C - Porsche driver changing engine operating modes at the end of his run. The "Manettino of the Porsche 918" is called a "Map Switch". It controls 5 engine operating modes of the car:

1 - E-Power (electric motor only mode)
2 - Hybrid (fuel economy mode, electric and combustion engines alternate)
3 - Sport Hybrid (sporty driving mode, combustion engine on fulltime)
4 - Race Hybrid (best track performance, max boost from electric engine)
5 - Hot Lap (middle RED button, allows electric reserves to drain)
​

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IMO, only modes 4 and 5 would be useful when setting a record lap. Either run the car in Race Hybrid for the full lap if the battery drains anyway or run it in Race Hybrid until the last straightaway and then switch to Hot Lap and use up the battery(ies). The following screenshots show both runs at the same points on the circuit (yellow circles identify unique landmarks). The newer official video shows the driver playing with the map switch but the older video shows the driver with his hands firmly on the steering wheel throughout the entire run.

Actually, in the original video, the e-Boost gauge goes to ZERO halfway along the final straightaway and only when the driver starts to apply his brakes on the approach to the finish line does a small amount of e-Boost return.

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If you look at the course map in the older video, you will see the newer video's driver applied the map switch change just after the "Galgenkopf" corner, right at the start of the final straightaway. And the battery's (e-Boost) already almost completely drained at that point.

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D - The newer official Porsche video does not show a 00:06:57 time and is slower than the original video which is now nowhere to be found on the web. The newer video has no timer display so it's difficult to determine where Porsche placed their timer at the finish area. But here are 2 spots.

Just past the finish line.

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Just at the finish line, where there is a "bridge" over the track

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Both timings are slower than the original video's.

E - The e-Boost gauge in the original video shows very low battery compared to full battery at the start of the run. Here is the e-Boost in the middle of the final straightaway where it reaches its max speed of 292kph in 6th gear along that stretch.

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…and goes to ZERO in the next 0.2 sec

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Compared to a full e-Boost when the driver was accelerating to the start line at the beginning of the lap.

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MY CONCLUSION
The run shown in the current official Porsche video is apparently slower than the record run and is also slower than the run in another earlier video where the e-Boost system appears almost completely drained at the start of the final straightaway. The earlier video has now apparently disappeared from the Net, replaced everywhere by the new official video. On top of this, the Porsche driver now claims he was told to back off.

This is really odd because there were 3 drivers/3 cars that attempted to break the 7-minute mark and only 1 car made it. Why would Porsche tell the record-setting driver to back off before even reaching the finish line when he was the only 1 out of 3 drivers that succeeded to break the record?

Neither the driver nor Porsche would know he would break the 7-minute mark until he was right at the finish line and 3 seconds is not a lot of margin. I can understand backing off on a following run after the 00:06:57 record had been set but this is not what the driver said.

The now-disappeared video also shows the e-Boost system completely drained by the time the last straightaway was crossed so there is no point in switching the map switch to "Hot Lap" to drain a battery that is already drained.

IMO, the rationale in the driver's comment is hard to believe. And my sentiments echoes the ones made earlier by another Fchat member…

… the 918's performance was amazing and perhaps it can do even better, however, given the strange information and videos from Porsche I am wondering how honest they are about this nevertheless, amazing car.