Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

P1 and 918 were stock or official ones?

 

Be careful with that. Saying that would either have to acknowledge that the 12C is one of the best cars ever made or that the 918/LF aren't very impressive, otherwsie how else could a moderately tuned 12C compete so closely with these two?

 

Oh come on Mark. A little friendly ribbing, bewilderment never hurt anyone (though you are correct on SOME "Porsche fans" elsewhere), especially considering how unbearable some of your Macca cohorts have been regarding the P1 and it's "challengers". Lol

Cheer up! It's all fun/slight payback.

 

This is brilliant.

McLaren were hiring engineers in powertrain hybrid technology back in 2009. So it was not a last minute decision as some on here are implying.

 

They are both prototypes.

 

I think you're misinterpreting that. I was under the impression that they were saying it needs to be driven fast enough so that it can use the DF effectively and achieve optimal grip. They weren't willing or comfortable driving it as fast as it needed to be driven to make full use of the aero grip, thus it wasn't as stable and didn't have the traction. It's possible that taking a corner at a significantly higher speed would actually be easier and better than taking it at lower speeds. I really don't think a reviewer is as capable or as quick as a professional, and as such it's possible they just weren't brave enough to take it to the limit. Can't blame them though if that is the case. I sure as hell wouldn't push a car that I'm unfamiliar with and that wasn't mine.

I have no idea if the car really has or needs that kind of grip, but IMO that's what they meant. I highly doubt they meant it's tricky driving with downforce.

 

You know that was said for effect, comparatively speaking. Nonetheless, "Touche"! Lol

Plus, it's not as if the 918 is a stripped out racer, track wannabee.

[Now I'm gonna sound like WT Doom here for a moment] The 918's got a Burmeister Stereo, Infotainment System, 12-20 mile all electric range, gets 30 mpg driven sanely, has creature comforts, jewel like build quality, can go topless, and even has a God Blasted Glove Compartment! Lol. And of course this doesn't include the system integration of all those far flung motors, transmissions, novel brakes and systems to work seamlessly and cohesively.

So it being slightly slower, the same speed, or faster is quite an achievement/says a lot (even against a "tarted up" MP4-12C-- which is an excellent vehicle by the way--with a bolted on electrical motor). Wink wink Lol.

Good Ole German Engineering.

 

I'd to see a 918 stock, expecially 0-300...

 

Yes/I forgot to answer: The silence coming from there is deafening.

It's like what a reverse engineered atomic explosion/bomb would sound like. Lol

 

It's a glass half full/half empty thing. Is the 918 impressive because it has AWD, 4WS, TV, two motors, and large batteries, or is the P1 impressive because it needed none of that stuff to accomplish the same performance? Or is the Nismo GTR more impressive than both because it was only 10s slower on the ring than the 918, yet it had 300-400hp less, no hybrid system, no CF tub, and cost 1/10th the price?

Different ways to get to the same place.

I'll give you the roof and the longer electrical range, but the creature comforts is whatev. I don't even have to use the 918 infotainment system to know it weighs way more and sucks way more than a 170g 6in smartphone. For all the automotive engineering talent Porsche and McLaren have, neither of them have figure out that people just want a smartphone dock and a dumb screen.

A car with impressive creature comforts is the latest lexus or S class with 360 camera, self parking, and all kinds of crazy stuff like that. The 918 has a stereo and maybe heated seats, though not sure about the seats. The amenities are far from extensive IMO and those would have held no weight in my decision.

918s best trait IMO is the decent electric range and roof. The rest of the stuff is nothing to write home about.

 

Yes it is more rewarding to trust the higher limits. When racing karts, the first time I followed the real fast pro through a high speed corner I suddenly reached another level of confidence and it changed the game. Samething on my motorcycle. When I went to the sprintcar school, learning to trust the winged car to go deeper into a turn over a non winged car was highly rewarding. Thats what its all about, pushing your limits and the cars limits. I dont recall McLaren ever saying that anyone could go out there and beat everyone. They said their car could do it. And in the right hands it probably can. And if you have to raise your game to do that, its even better. Its obvious you want to be able to drive 8-9 10ths out of the box. I prefer to have a car that has a steeper learning curve. That has a sharper edge, that will try to catch me relaxing when I should be on point. Again, Im not saying its better, so dont throw a fit. I just prefer that type of car. BMW & vettes over Audi & porsche. Rwd over awd. Just a PREFERENCE.

 

Good points.

I respect your opinion. You bring up some salient, or interesting points. So thanks for your comments.

However, at the risk of writing here too much, too long this morning; I think you're overlooking a few aspects as well.

Anyone can [literally] bolt on an electrical motor to a current turbocharged vehicle (with a few handling, aero tweaks) to make it go faster. Where's the challenge in that? What Porsche did, was much more comprehensive and complete (starting from the platform of a "plug in hybrid with decent range", and all the weight, complexities, design/engineering challenges it would ensue for a simultaneous Ring Record Holder). I'm sure many can see that?

The fact that it goes fast, has creature comforts (at least compared to a P1), sounds good, looks good--especially the interior and graphics--, handles well with good communication to the driver, and gets decent fuel economy to boot. This will not only please many, but is an outstanding achievement. It may not be YOU, or someone else's selling point/hot button. But we can still recognize the achievement?

Ironically, many thought, Porsche had buried themselves in too deep a hole with it's Plug In Hyper-Brid Premise/concept (no doubt a reason for much of the initial hate and bewilderment directed towards it). It was a big risk, with [once again] Porsche's Sports Car Bonafides hanging in the the balance with it's faithful after the initial Cayenne, Panamera uproars. However, through seemingly great design, engineering, dogged determination, no doubt numerous empirical problem solving, computer geeks, and of course heavy German Deut$che Mark; they've apparently created a great "Go Fast" modern day Hypercar as well. Kudos to their effort, and all these great vehicles, car makers.

Note: Honest reviewers, are not saying the 918 is Playstation or a lower riding, mid-engined GTR with electrical motors affixed to it's axles. Not at all. They're all saying it's fun, well balanced, sounds/feels great, and encourages you to be better, drive it faster. Remember, the 918 has the lowest COG to start with, along with it's own great downforce and air streaming. So it's not like it's all smoke, mirrors and technology keeping the 918 firmly planted on the road. Good Ole Physics, and [Sir Isaac's] Newton's Laws are at play as well.

All this "harder to drive and master" stuff of the P1, appears to be a result of it's disappointing (at least in many wild eyed McLaren fans eyes) looming head to head publication vs the The Artist Formerly Known As The Fat Pig Lard Ass Portly Porker 918 Spyder? Before then; it seemed to be all about speed, acceleration, handling, physics, aero, tracks and lap times. Now it's changed to other fancies. Go Figure.

Nonetheless; thanks/good stuff.

 

Yes, plates are "S*GO" and "PI OOV"

 

Yeah compared to stuff like the Nismo GTR, it appears like Porsche's wizardry of the 4WD, big batteries and all that extra power don't really add up to much difference. It really seems like using the same formula of a trick all wheel drive system, plus hundreds of extra horsepower, plus an exponentially higher budget for development, materials and car production should yield more than a paltry dozen seconds.

And yeah I don't understand how the 918 guys can go on and on about nurburgring times and creature comforts. It seems like the weissach pack car used for the lap times doesn't come with items like a glove box, carpet, leather, air conditioning, radio, paint, etc. And exactly, if someone wants a more comfortable car then one of these supercars isn't the proper choice anyway; it's not as if the P1 and LaFerrari aren't easily daily-drivable cars.

When the argument over which supercar is better devolves into which car has better "creature comforts" and which is easier to drive, then the whole idea behind the supercar is lost. At best, it begins to sound more like a 959 vs F40 argument, and history was pretty clear that the latter was the favorite car. Then again, the F1 had a real interior, a CD player and a whole extra passenger seat, while simultaneously wiping the floor with everything then on the market and yet to come over the next decade.

 

Nismo GTR as used on that Ring run had in excess of 700 hp, Probably a lot more. At the end of Doettinger Hohe it achieved 300+ kmh(around 310 kmh on the speedo). 918, with better aerodynamics did 317 kmh. To compare on the other end, a C6 ZR1 Corvette did 284 kmh.

 

fwiw I don't care for awd sports cars. Even though my DD is a 991 turbo s, you can't flog it like a proper rwd sports car. Its quick but the fun factor is just not there.

 

You can't be that poor, out the loop (in your knowledge or misdirection)? I hope you're not trolling (or maybe I do)? Lol

The Weissach Pack, is like any other Sports, Renn Sports Porsche. You can get it any way you want it (including paint, air conditioner, radio, Sat Nav, stereo, etc.). No different. Some of that stuff, you can't even delete. Come on now. You must know that. Lol

And of course it comes with a glove box, unlike the P1! All 918 Spyders do to my knowledge.

And mentioning, the 918's creature comforts (kinda the opposite to what you said above, regarding the Weissach car) is not a lost argument for the Hypercar, though technically these are really "Hyperbrids" come to think of it.

The 918, only exemplifies the incredible wizardry, thought and engineering that went into this vehicle; to make it so fast, handle so well; make such nice sounds, be relatively luxurious and innovative (infotainment system), while giving decent mileage to boot. Is all this a requirement? No! of course not. But it's certainly nice to have, if/when you can build, engineer it into said super fast, super handling, sounding, feeling road vehicle. And Porsche apparently did. We can tip out cap to them.

Nothing is lost; especially when we're now hearing the P1 to be the less balanced, more jittery, poorer breaking, slower vehicle; when previously many of it's staunchest devotees were repeatedly bellowing the complete opposite.

Some are still grasping for straws, slinging mud I see??

No biggie, expected.

 

That the 918 can live with/outperform the P1 in a straight line and on the track despite an apparent power to weight deficit is major news. The fact that the 918 outbreaks the P1 is quite frankly shocking.

All of this runs completely counter to the propaganda that we've been hearing since Geneva 2013. It also tells us exactly why we've never seen the P1 Nurburgring time. Hard to release a 6.59 video when your car is called the P1.

 

Question:

Wouldn't now be as good as time as any to hear from some much needed "Insider Contacts"?

Or does that only happen in McLarens defense, and/or when there are only good things to report?

Shouldn't we be hearing all about what happened during this Top Gear testing (not only about the P1 and 918, but about the other vehicles) from these insiders?

Instead, we're getting mostly Witness Protection Program type silence...Just saying.

Of course we know in advance, they're most likely going to choose the P1 (if there is such a component in their article), to safe face. We get that. However, Inquiring Minds would like to know what happened there?

Now don't get mad at me Mark. Lol.

I wanted to write, respond to you with this (in a friendly, humorous way of course; though there's some truth to it--Lol), but was too lazy, short for time to find your previous post to me.

 

Mark no one can dispute I am a huge Porsche fan . Old and new .
However the anti mclaren crap being written on this thread makes me honestly want to pour petrol on my 918 and set fire to the damn thing . It's embarrassing .

People here need some sex and to step away from the keyboard .

 

Haha yeah +1.

In my case I need to stop taking occasional breaks and get back to work.

 

Think about it, if you could figure out how to sell sex to all the keyboard warriors out there you'd be a billionaire.

 

Oh come on Doom. Don't be the Party Pooper/Grown Up, Switzerland, or Statesman amongst the bickering children and feuding Nations.

Just some good natured fun and ribbing, mixed in with some subtle, and not so subtle "I Told You So's", "What The Hell Happened", alongside heaping dishfuls of Crow being served (though I could do with some sex now, since you brought it up)". Haha. Just kidding about the sex. No, maybe not. Lol

Actually, there been some pretty good post on this thread today; both sides. More importantly, there been no Name Calling, or threats of any sort.

Like I said; just some good discussion, and/or ribbing. This to will pass shortly, especially when the article finally comes out, then it will be about something else, what they wrote? Slow day (on many fronts), I guess? Lol

Enjoy the week, and Good Luck to England, and/or who ever you root for in the World Cup!

Now excuse me. You know what I gotta do, find (Hint: your suggestion).Lol

 

LMBO!!

 

Weissach pck.
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