Because Top Gear UK continues to spout positive BS at the TV public. I would shoot anyone who wants to give a free Range Rover.
All the arguements for all driver aids make solid sound sense, sure they do. BUT Nothing compensates the thrill of knowing that in an unaided unassisted car it's just you and the machine in the purest sense, there is no outside input only yours, it's pure. True if it's pure driving you want then even Ferraris have limitations and in no way, no way at all are they F1 cars, that's just laughable. However I do think that the old cars offer insight if nothing else or maybe just a nod of recognition in the direction of those old raw racers of yesteryear. For me balancing an old Ferrari on the throttle on the limit in a curve with the engine screaming is the only reason I have it. It's like a high wire act....it's always so much more exciting when there is no net ha ha.
But why so many in Nor Cal? There are so many far better SUV's. Well duh. Look at the politicians we have. I guess I just have too high expectations. I guess H.L. Menken was right.
So was TS Eliot: " headpiece filled with straw, alas!" Had a friend with a RR that pretty much followed traditional helicopter maintenance dogma - 4 hours of maint for every hour in the air. I asked him why he kept it. I had originally figured he just wanted to demonstrate that he made enough money to pay for the upkeep but his answer was, "I was brought up on old Nortons, Triumphs, and BSA's; I'm used to vehicles that don't work."
Rifle Driver: 'Based on that philosophy any of us not driving cars with tiller steering, hand operated 2 wheel brakes, hand operated fuel and oil pumps are just incapable of experiencing real driving' Well I wasn't thinking about going back that far, although for some I'm sure it has it's merrits. Technology 80 years ago was pretty bloody great and I'm not 80 ha ha. eg.Bugatti Type 51A 1931 300BHP Weight 780kilos...Oh Yes! When we are all going about in the auto perfection that is self driving, superfast, super engineered, supersafe supercars that are the ultimate in automobile evolution and perfection, will we miss the sweet spot of the 'now' motor car age that packed so many raw thrills? I know I will, and there will, I think still be a market for those raw thrills when actually getting in and driving a car will seem totally obsurd. Right it's Friday, I'm off out to see how hot I can get the tyres on the old Ferrari ;-) all the best, Bell.
I deleted my post because it was not meant to single you out so much as to highlight the overall and rather common trait so many have that their chosen snapshot in time is the right one. To me they all are the right one but maybe not for me. There are periods in the development of the automobile we are all drawn to but we should never diminish the importance or validity of any of the others.
Friends of ours have two. Standing outside at a party, their nearly brand new one suddenly started locking and unlocking the doors. Just out of the blue. It wouldn't stop doing it for two days. Back to the dealership. They practically live there. I don't give them grief about it, though. At least it's not a damn Subaru like all the other Earth humping hippies around here.
The area where I live is Range Rover City. All the mums drive them on the school run and they are completely unable to park them so they cause traffic chaos in the narrow London roads. Then they get their pushchairs out the back which are almost as big as the car. I dont understand that genre of vehicle at all, they seem to be massive on the outside and small on the inside. I think it was Gordon Marray who said the advent of the SUV started car development going backwards. Instead of smaller/lighter which is obvious for something that needs to start, stop and go round corners they go huge/heavy.
You committed a version of the straw man argument as always comes up in these threads about modern cars, none of us have driven cars with tillers. In the 90s I was driving a 66 Stang so it is valid for us to lament about the robot cars of today.
And that changes what? Many people love automotive technology from long before they were born and conversely some feel the newest is the only way to go. Whatever point was trying to be made here is mindless gibberish. Because your interest and experience is so limited don't assume we are all so limited.
Actually pretty much nothing went wrong with it except the ABS. It had a beautiful Buick derived V8. I replaced the alternator. That was about it.
Quote Rifledriver: I deleted my post because it was not meant to single you out so much as to highlight the overall and rather common trait so many have that their chosen snapshot in time is the right one. Hey no worries I'm cool And yes you are right we do prehaps get over nostalgic about 'The Good Ol' Days' etc. Andyww Quote: I dont understand that genre of vehicle at all, they seem to be massive on the outside and small on the inside. I think it was Gordon Marray who said the advent of the SUV started car development going backwards. Instead of smaller/lighter which is obvious for something that needs to start, stop and go round corners they go huge/heavy. Yep I'm with You and Gordon Murray on that one, I hate Range Rovers ;-) Except if I was going off road.....and then I'd probably use a Toyota 4x4 but then I know nothing about those kind of vehicles at all.
Gordon, If you read my post, you will note that I acknowledge that modern systems work extremely well. Why don't you get in a 328, or ANY car with ABS that's more than 20 yrs old, drive down the highway at 110kph, and stand on the brakes. Then disconnect the ABS and do it again, braking with all the skill that you have at your disposal - you will have stopped 2 car lengths earlier. I was referring to the McLaren F1 road car, not an F1 car, but in any case, ABS in F1 appeared after the technology had been around for more than a decade - great for in the wet and not flat-spotting tyres - there may be data showing back to back testing, but I haven't seen it, so I'm not sure about that point.
Buick gave the engineering drawings to rover because even they knew it was a crappy engine right from the start. Like they say, another mans trash...
In F1, yes...but you seem to forget that the first race car to have tested ABS in race condition was the Porsche 917 in 1971. And if there ever was a true, full-blooded race car, it was the 917, isn't it? And oh, by the way, said ABS for the 917 was manufactured by Alfred Teves of Germany...a company that also manufactured the ABS of the 328, seventeen years later...which we can therefore consider has having part of its DNA coming from race. Am I wrong here?
I bought a 328 because it was cheap and did not have "ABS". (1986) Its great to be nostalgic: "... race inspired" until you cannot get parts for the damn car and its sitting dead for several months with your money tied up in it. I have posted several times about a friends ordeal trying to repair the failed abs system in his hallowed 89 328. He sold the car as soon as it was running again. These cars were fun because they were cheap. If prices really are on the rise, then they are not going to get driven as much and you are going to see parts become even more an issue. The worst thing for an older car is to not drive it regularly.
Well I don't know about parts availability in the United States, but I can assure you that here in Europe you can found the whole TEVES MkII 328 ABS for about a hundred Euros at the most; there is actually no availability problem for the ABS parts whatsoever, as this has been used on dozens of different cars here: it is easily available, and furthermore, usually very dependable and solid. On the other hand, I fully agree with you on the consequencies of prices of our cars being on the rise; just saw a few days ago a 8.000 miles from new '88 328 GTS for sale in Luxembourg for 90.500 euros (and you have to pay 3.500 euros extra should you want its luggage set...); I don't know if it will sell at this price, but that scares me! Rgds
"Why don't you get in a 328, or ANY car with ABS that's more than 20 yrs old, drive down the highway at 110kph, and stand on the brakes. Then disconnect the ABS and do it again, braking with all the skill that you have at your disposal - you will have stopped 2 car lengths earlier." That MIGHT be possible under perfect conditions with perfect modulation of the brakes by a perfect driver. But I routinely work the ABS on my 328 under far more aggressive "testing" than a panic stop at 110KMH (closer to 110 MPH in the straight line and over 90MPH on curves) and can guarantee that although Ayrton Senna could probably have worked the brakes better than the ABS system can, I cannot.
So if available, you'd logically add more driver aids of your choice until you roundly beat Senna with the best that computers can give I remember playing F1 simulations in the 90s and whilst my friends were happily racing with nanny buttons on, I always switched them all off. I wanted to learn the hard way.
Well, Paul... The firm "Biria" in Neukirch-Lausitz (near Heidelberg) Germany has mounted an ABS in 2004 on....a bicycle... Rgds
Yes and no…I would not pay to add that stuff to a 328 via the aftermarket but if a 328 had it, dang right I'd use it (though I'd shut the traction control off occasionally when I wanted to light up the tires). If there had been a 1990 model 328 that had included power steering, better AC, traction control, more power etc, I'd have bought a 1990!. I love the look of the 328 GTS; thats why I bought one. It had nothing at all to do with wanting some sort of "vintage" feel. I had plenty of that back when the vintage feel was state of the art; I don't need it.
Good answer and I respect that attitude. Mine's different; I have modern feel in my modern Alfa and work with software every day. So I whilst I also love the look (who doesn't?), I also really embrace the contrast of something old school, the era of which ends just short of the 328 with its microswitches and ABS.
Just for the sake of precision: Porsche 917, chassis 030, ran the 1000 kms of Zeltweg 1971, driven by Marko / Larrousse, and fitted with ABS. Rgds
