ZFFYT53A540138006 was hit (and is now for sale w/o noting this)

Gents,

A quick heads up that my car was hit in a parking garage in September ('13). It was repaired by an authorized dealership - and then they bought the car from me (as I didn't want it back). The car, an '04 360 Spider 6-speed with a bunch of options, is VIN ZFFYT53A540138006. I was just made aware that it is back up for sale sans any indication that there was an accident. I'm in a bit of a rush, but per request, I can post the exact repairs that were done.

I was first sent the car on Cars.com - but I've found it on the dealers website here: Used 2004 Ferrari 360 For Sale | Bensalem PA. Note that the accident is not on the CarFax for some reason.

My guess is that the dealership that did the work likely sold it to this dealership (Professional Automobile Exchange in Bensalem, PA).

While I have no vested interest in this car or either dealership, I couldn't, in good conscious, not make the community aware of this.


Best,

Kenny
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The damage looks purely cosmetic. If I were in the market, I would not let the fact that it was previously repaired stop be from buying it if the rest of the car checked out and was serviced / mechanically sound. Carfax is not as reliable as people think it is.

 

Yikes wonder if this dealer even knows about the accident.


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Carfax could take years to post accident data. So you are correct they're simply a guide and not very accurate, there's several lawsuits against carfax as well by numerous dealers. They have manipulated consumers and gave dealers no choice but to sign up and pay their outrageous fees for information that is not accurate. I'd say 40-50% of the reports i've seen have false dates, number of owners, accident info etc...

 

You beat me to it.

 

Carfax is certainly not gospel. I've heard that they only get accidents on their reports if a POLICE REPORT is issued, though I have not confirmed this. Did the accident involving this car involve a police report? Since the OP said the accident occurred in a parking garage, which might be on private property, then there seems to be a chance that a police report was not issued or filed. Just my $0.02.

 

such a minor hit, I can see why no mention of it.

 

New fender, bumper (and maybe headlight and fender liner). I would not let it affect my purchase as it was done at the dealer.
Alan

 

I'm glad you posted this. Its for the buyer to determine if this is "superficial" enough for them. My big concern would be owning this car for a year or so, buying it with a clean carfax, and then have it suddenly show an accident one day. I'd want to price it in.

 

Dealer website says $91,900. but they also have it listed in Autotrader for $89,000.
There's another on A/t for $86K... I wonder if these are fair or low prices?

 

About a third of Carfax's expenses are for marketing. There are several much better services out there now. I have a Carfax which show no accident on my car similar to the OP, but two others which do.

I used to work for the parent company in the early 70s.

They were the only game in town back then with all the motor vehicle records and we did a lot of work for police forces. I was in IT and often would get emergency weekend requests: i.e. "find me all the Ford F150s with Ontario plates s with "46" in them and are painted white". Back then, it was an 8hr tape drive query.

The best one was an inquiry on a Lamborghini Countach some guy had bought as new from the local dealer. He suspected it had been registered prior and sure enough I found a registration. They dealer had indeed rolled back the ODO and tried to scrub the ownership clean. I knew the owner of the dealership and that was not so comfortable.

 

I agree with this thought. What I try to do is pull all available reports from the various sources / companies, and sit them side by side, comparing them each line by line. While I'm doing that, I have (if available) the full service history to help the process.

I still go back to my original point that this car might not have an accident on record with Carfax if there were no police report generated. Could the OP indicate if a police report was created for this accident? Thanks.

 

This happened to me with my old 355. I go to sell the car 3 years later and miraculously an accident was on the Carfax report (with no detail I might ad) that wasn't there prior. I think it took 7 years to show up on report.

 

What's happening with Carfax now is that they're going to auto body shops and making offers to buy all of their records. So, cars with previously clean Carfax reports will suddenly have accident damage repair show up.

Kind of sucks, but I don't blame Carfax for trying to get as much information as they can for their database.

I always print out a hard copy of a Carfax when I get a car, especially a consignment, so if things change, I can show the original report.

Recently, I had a consignment (not a Ferrari) with a clean Carfax when I got it. Then, a potential buyer pointed out that there was an accident on the Carfax. Yes, it just "suddenly" appeared. I went back to the consignor, and they said "oh yeah, the car was hit last year, just forgot to tell you about it". Just took about 6 months to show up on the Carfax...

 

Some more background now that I have a free second:
- The car was involved in an accident in my parking garage in NYC. The garage where I kept the 360 subleased space to a rental car company. While a garage attendant was moving the 360, it was hit by an employee of the rental car company.
- As the accident occurred on private property, there was no police report filed (I tried, this is what the police said).
- The repair took ~4 months and cost $43,450.15.

 

I'd be furious if I purchased a car that was represented as a clean, zero stories car* - and later find out that it had been in an accident. I absolutely wouldn't do business with a dealership that knowingly withheld information of that nature.


*Not saying that the dealership currently marketing the car is doing this. I'm saying in general. I have no idea if they're privy to the accident - and/or if they are disclosing the accident when talking to potential buyers.

 

OMG!!!!
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I think because car fax is incorrect we shouldn't necessarily think the dealer is hiding something. I had emailed them on this car during my search and they disclosed that the car has been repaired: hood, headlight, fender, bumper when I inquired about the car.

Now, I always ask if the car has had any damage or paintwork, even on new cars as many have, because carfax isn't always correct. I can't say they would have offered it if I hadn't asked but I'd like to believe they would.

 

Thanks for the update and information. I'm not surprised that Carfax doesn't have a record of this. And, FWIW, I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw the number above.

I'd challenge anyone here to say that's not a signifcant repair relative to the value of this particular 360. Holy cow. If I knew that number, I'm sorry, it would make me think twice, and probably pass on this car...

 

Thanks for the heads up! I'm a bit surprised about some comments regarding this situation. I have read a lot on this thread and for the most part, potential buyers are steered away from any car for sale that has the slightest discrepancy. I would demand a hefty discount on this 360 if I were to purchase it.

Cheers,
Deepak

 

Well it wouldn't put me off the car, but it would need to be a bit cheaper.

It's hardly a write off.

 

My thought exactly; it may have a clear CarFax today, but not when you try to resell the car at a future date. I know I'd hate it if I paid full market up front and then had to discount for a blemished title on the resale.

 

Interesting...I bought mine from Mike and Pro-Imports. In fact he still has my car listed (as sold) on his inventory list. I certainly hope he didn't put this listing up with knowledge of the damage and then fails to disclose it to potential buyers. Ultimately, the best thing a broker/dealer can offer to a customer is transparency. Let the customer weigh the information and make an informed purchase decision.

 

it wont have a blemished title! - its a little ding. with the number of owners these things have, i bet there are countless cars out there that have had minor bodywork done to a high standard that becomes lost in the car history. frankly, i think it would be expected with the car's age (especially bumper repaints), and for me shouldn't impact value. i'd far rather detailed documentation. at any rate we don't know if the dealer is discussing the car history with serious buyers, and making assumptions about the sales practice that we know little about seems inappropriate. i don't think there is a duty to put every detail in the advertisement.

 

In contrast, I don't think that this is the same as a paint chip in the front bumper. You have to remove the front clip and do extensive work to fix it.

I would be furious if this were not disclosed and I was buying the car. Is not stating a lien on the car a small detail that can be omitted? How about a small thing like a car being made whole out of two halves? Or not having working airbags? Just small omissions right?

It's an accident. No ifs.. ands.. or buts.. about it. Look at the pictures. Selling it as accident free and "clear title" is misrepresentation. Period.