Banks Running at different richnesses (13 Cali)

Hello all, I currently have a 2013 California. Dropped it off the other day due to a catalytic converter error code, upon some investigation Boardwalk has discovered that one bank is running too lean and the other too rich which is causing the code to trip. Current mileage is just around 15,000.

Has anyone run into this issue by chance?

Thank you kindly all,
CPS

 

You're doing quite a lot of miles, which is a good thing; but when was your annual service done, or have you had it for a year yet?

 

It is currently my daily driver so piling on the miles, It was actually originally dropped off for service. This will be its second service, the first was completed at 2,500 miles (1 year of ownership)... It has been around 8 months since and I am at the near 15K mark.

 

My car's nowhere near that mileage yet and I haven't come across this problem before.

The cause(s) may be from component(s) somewhere along the fuel or air intake paths. If the sensors were working properly then at least one of the 2 cats (the side running too rich) needs to be replaced but they'd have to check the sensors/cats on both sides to be sure.

I would also ask the tech exactly how far off the air/fuel mixtures were. If the deviations were only minor they may have been that way at least since the last service or even before.

 

They still have no idea what is wrong with it.

Boardwalk has had the vehicle now for going on two weeks. Sent off the specs to FNA for a reply, still no word back.

Have to say a little irritated that this hasn't been resolved yet.

 

I put 29K on one Cali and currently have 21K on my second Cali with no issues. Be sure to get as much detail as you can once Ferrari figures it out and share it with us.

Rick

 

....Not exactly accurate... 1 week and 2 days, of which 2 days were over a weekend
< wink > but a day without a Ferrari can seem like weeks, trust me I understand and empathize.

We DO know what is going on and have been working directly with FNA on the repair procedure.**

I am sorry that the repair process has not gone as quickly as we'd each like it to, but FNA rules apply and we have to perform the steps and provide the information they request in order to gain their autho to perform the repairs. ( Just like we would if you were paying )

** I'm willing to share as much information regarding your visit as you'd like me to in open forum, just let me know.

S

 

It certainly feels longer than that, I will admit! Used to Lambo service and Audi for the R8 where everything is nothing more than a day, maybe two. I think using the Ariel as a daily driver right now is also causing my body to go perpetually numb from the vibration.

Yes please feel free to post up Steve. If I am not mistaken from my conversation with Larry it is the full fuel injector system. No need to ever ask that, especially if the info can help out the community.

 

That was my most difficult transition as well, coming from many many years with German manufactures. I was accustomed to immediate answers ( within a few hours ) immediate warranty approvals , parts no more than a day away, etc..

Repairs are a lot like the buying process for consumers…. We have to ask and wait, ask and wait some more , if we get too pushy, we get to wait even longer. A lot of approvals and tech support comes out of Italy, so that adds a day to every transaction.

Anyways, here is a snapshot of where we are:

Car came in for its annual service ( due by MILES ) … that never happens …
Oil Svc, Brake Flush, and Drive belt replacement
Check Engine Light showing on display w/ catalytic converter temp faults stored and a range of other “one time” , not current faults

After running prelim diagnosis, we performed an exhaust gas analysis at the cylinder head, upstream of catalytic converters on both banks.

Results Below:

LH Cylinder Bank
HC(ppm) 160-164
CO(%) .28-.31
C02(%)13.2
02(%)1.9-1.9

RH Cylinder Bank
HC 216-223
CO .98-1.06
C02 12.6-12.7
O2 2.0-2.1


POST Cat results

LH Cylinder Bank
HC 88-92
CO .28-.36
CO2 9.3 – 9.4
O2 7.1-7.3

RH Cylinder Bank
HC 298-303
CO 2.07 – 2.55
CO2 11.8-12.0
O2 2.3-2.4

From the above results we performed diagnosis on the fuel injection system itself. Several of the injectors appeared to have carbon buildup and/or leaking.

With that said, Ferrari approved replacing the entire fuel rail, w. new injectors, seals, gaskets, etc. Being a high pressure system , it wasn’t worth the risk to replace a few injectors.

As mentioned above, the catalytic converters have been visually inspected and will be re-inspected and tested after fuel rail replacement, to confirm any possible damage.

I will try and answer any other questions as best I can during the day today.

The parts are coming out of Italy and we paid extra to have them expedited , which puts them here, pending customs , Tuesday.

More to follow,

CP Shrl , thank you for your understanding, I'm watching to make sure everything goes as smoothly and quickly as possible.

S

 

This is interesting and I appreciate your sharing the data with us.

I wonder if the sensor(s) were not working properly, caused the fuel injectors to foul, leading to a cascade of ensuing issues. IMO, the RH CAT is toast for sure - its POST-CAT HC readings are even worse than PRE-CAT HC readings! The LH CAT didn't do anything at all with the CO% readings, going from 0.28-0.31% to 0.28-0.36%.

Based on emissions testing here in Ontario, CANADA, both CATs would fail as the HC emissions (assuming 40 kph test, not curb idle) are much too high. For instance, my 1998 BMW 540i MT6 with 11-year-old CATs perennially produced 7ppm HC and 0% CO. The 40kph limits here are 53 ppm HC and 0.29% CO (curb idle limits are 150ppm HC, 0.70% CO). The only other parameter we test for is NO ppm (385 limit at 40 kph, N/A for idle). My 540i tested 6ppm HC, 0.02% CO at idle!

Unless the CATs perform like my old 540i's after other components are sorted out, considering this is a new extremely expensive high-performance car with low mileage, I think both CATs should be changed.

My E39 540i MT6 was a "perfect car". I still miss her.

 

Fuel Rail has arrived and intake has been removed for installation. Upon removal you can see a lot of carbon build up. We have asked permission to clean both banks and are awaiting a responce from Ferrari.

Picture included:
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Thank you for sharing! +1

What's wrong with the Cali? Having driven just 15k miles, this is an enormous carbon build up!

 

Actually, it's not. With all of the additives and general design of direct injection , not just Ferrari , this type of build up is common.

Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, Mazda, etc all have ongoing carbon build up concerns.

Both banks have the same amount of build up, not just the side that had the fuel rail / injector concern.

More to follow, as we are awaiting FNA approval to clean.

S

 

Its all very interesting! Thanks

Rick

 

How do you clean it? Can it be cleaned without removing the intake?

 

Thank you for the update Steve. Carbon build-up is one of the downsides of having direct fuel-injection, which is a popular design used by many carmakers. While DI boosts efficiency and power its inherent design can easily cause carbon buildup on the valves which then leads to more problems. If you do a lot of short trips in urban driving, your are at much greater risk of getting this problem. You need to get the engine really hot and give the car a good long high speed drive every so often. I had an effective routine I used to follow with my BMWs but it's likely not that compatible with the new Fcars.

I did bring up this issue with the DI when I discussed MalibuGuy's problems with the variators in his 2010 California last year. He also mentioned exhaust header (manifold) issues in early Californias and I imagine you have already examined the condition of the manifolds when you checked the CATs.

You may want to check out that thread. I suspect these problems are all interrelated.

 

You can try to do that using proper injector cleaners but you must change the engine oil afterwards and the cleaning may not be 100% effective. Injector cleaners are normally expected to work progressively when you add gas, with regular car engines. But you should avoid doing that in your Fcar unless you change the oil immediately after. It's best done at the advice of your dealer's service department.

 

Can you explain why to change the oil after using injector cleaner?
There are several fuels adds...

 

Check this:
Amazon.com: Liqui Moly 2007 Jectron Gasoline Fuel Injection Cleaner - 300 ml: Automotive
Amazon.com: Liqui Moly 2001 Valve Clean - 150 ml: Automotive

Very good results on my BMWs.

 

Injector cleaners contain detergents and solvents that, aside from dissolving carbon buildup on your valves and other combustion chamber parts, will also degrade the engine protection ingredients in your motor oil. The protectants in the oil are there to reduce wear to your engine so if you keep using the contaminated oil, you'll wear your engine unnecessarily.

This is a pretty commonly-known practice amongst experienced drivers who take car of their own cars. You should change the oil after you run the injector cleaners.

 

I have used Jectron in my BMWs before and it's a good injector cleaner, but it was more expensive to buy in Canada because it is an imported product and it's not widely stocked. The Wynn's Injector cleaner is as good or better. However, some of the other stuff do not work at all.

The valves in my older 3er needed blasting with walnut shells one time but it was fine after I started using Wynn's.

I haven't had to worry about my Cali30's injectors or valves yet. I make sure she is driven hard and hot after every few rides and avoid engine overruns (crackles, pops, bangs) while I'm doing it.

 

I would understand your explanation when it comes to oil adds.
But this is just a fuel add.
There is no Oil contact when using a injection or valve cleaner like Liqui Moly.

 

What do you think is sliding up and down on the sides of the combustion chambers when the pistons go up and down, as the fuel (with injector cleaner) from the injectors are ignited by the spark plugs?

OTOH, with oil additives, you DO NOT want to change the oil after you put in the additives.

 

Congrat's on your new car sir, I am betting we won't see you for some time or at least until you have us install the Sport Exhaust for you!

Enjoy the roads!

S

 

As a quick follow up,

Per Ferrari approval we:

1. Manually cleaned the carbon build up ( pictured above )
2. Replaced the fuel rail w/ injectors
3. Replaced Cat Converter

Car has been running and driving 100% , though the OP chose to take the opportunity to move into a 458 Spider, I have personally put several miles on the California and can say we are back online again.

Now, back to the 458 Spider!

S