F1 Trans

Alan, you mention the brake pedal has to be drepress for the engine to start. This is know for manual transmission on every manufacture, but what about F1? because my car does not need to push on the brake pedal to start...is there something wrong with my system or that's the way it is?
Steve, I would like to follow and I would like to change my brake light system to LED. Can you give some guidance, pls ...I don't want to change out the entire exterior lights system, JUST the brake light.

 

No Ferrari yet? What are you waiting for? You're missing out on all the fun!

 

Here are your choices..
1) Cut into the existing wiring
2) Clean, OEM-like install
Take your pick.

 

Prefer "clean" work.
By the way Steve, any clear explaination to the best of your knowledge about brake light circuit ties into F1 diagnostic???

 

Since I don't have an electrical schematic of the F360, I can only guess. The TCU polls the brake pedal switch for on/off condition. if you're in gear and you let off the brake pedal, the TCU will disengages to neutral with a warning beep. Ferrari probably thinks it is a good idea to leverage this condition by tying the brake light check as part of the circuitry.

I suspect that you have a broken filament in one of the brake light bulbs which makes contact most of the time but once in a while a bump on the road will cause it to break continuity. This will set an F1 fault. You can verify this by performing the following. Make sure you have good brake light bulbs.

To trigger F1 fault:
1) ignition off, key out
2) disconnect one of the brake lights
3) key in, ignition on
4) ECU go for CHECK OK status
5) You should get an F1 fault indication with beeps

To trigger F1 no fault:
6) ignition off, key out
7) reattach brake lights
8) key in, ignition on
9) ECU go for CHECK OK status
10) You should NOT get an F1 fault indication

As to converting the brake lights to LEDs, see my postings here to get an idea as to what it takes to do a clean conversion. I can post more info if you still want to pursue it.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/449854-transmission-light.html

 

Steve, it is entirely possible that they never poll a brake switch but instead look for the filament current.

 

Ok, so I got home tonight and decided to address my main concern prior upgrade.
Before I go BLABLABLA...LOL. can someone verify for me on this: When I turn on the parking light I only have the left and right outer lenses lite up. When I had my 9 year old step on the brake, my left and right inner lenses lite up. Another word outer lenses are for tail lights and inner lenses are for brake lights(not talk about the engine lid brake light), is this correct? or is something wrong with my car?

Ok, I pulled out my tail lights bulb and brake light bulbs. I got some Italy part number included p25/6w. I went to the local parts store and pick up 8 of 7528 which match up the p25/6w. I suppose 6w is 6watt. There are many other bulbs like 1157 will fit as well but different spec/rating.

In addition, I pulled out my engine lid brake light(3rd brake light), I measure all of the bulbs ohms. I got two that are 12ohms and the other 5 are at 6.7ohms. I replaced the two bulbs with the wrong ohms as well.
Take in consideration, like Steve had mention of intermitten bad contacts in the bulbs. I did notice all my bulbs pig tail are sink inward. So I replaced all tail and brake light bulbs.
In regards to the lights the way it lite up. Can someone help me verify that, plssssss.

Oh, by the way. I did try what Steve said. Very interesting. Take one of the bulb out, turn on the key, turn on the park light, and the f1 warning would stay solid on. With all 8bulbs connected, key on, turn on the park light, and f1 warning light goes off.

 

I am so disappointed that I can't find what I was hopping to find. I read and read every page on the repair manual about electronic control transmission(f1), and I could not find anything that like to bake light circuit, other then the LAN communication between the TCU and ECU, which I could understand where that brake light circuit signal can come in. There is a stop light switch signal directly to the TCU to disengage the clutch to protect the gearbox, but nothing about the strategy of the brake light circuit intern of resistance value to tie in with F1 diagnostic.

 

Steve
We are talking about the brake light not the turn signals where the resistor fools the relay to stop hyper flashing -- unless you also add a resistor to your brake light LEDs. Maybe Stef can chime in on this -- or maybe not as it may give away what electronics he engineered into his light system replacement.
Alan

 

Mike
To my knowledge the brake pedal has to be depressed while cranking to fire up the engine. This is from the owners manual. Now it may be that Ferrari is telling you to keep the brake pedal depressed just for safety and does not affect the starting of the engine. To be honest I've never tried to start with my foot off the brake pedal so you are probably correct -- you don't need to and that is normal.
Alan
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Mike
You are correct as to the brake lights.

Outer lamp cluster:
Both bulbs -- rear light and turn signal

Inner lamp cluster:
Both bulbs -- brake lights

Alan

 

Alan- Stef is no longer here.

Your 360 will start in neutral without the brake being depressed. Try it.

 

Thank you Alan for verifing the functionality of the tail and brake light.
If anyone here have an F1, can you go ahead and try to start the engine without the touching any pedal. See if the engine starts up? Some interesting facts that were not disclose by the manufacture can be interesting and can help verify wether a normal condition or not...I am still working on my issue, I want to thank you in advance for all your chime in. I will try my best to get to the bottom of this....

 

Actually replaced 360 with F430 last year. Awesome car! Been thinking about LED conversion but want to do it right.

 

For the first time today I started mine without a foot on the brake pedal and voila it started. I guess Ferrari tells you to do it just to be on the safe side. I did have to press the brake pedal to get from first to neutral as I leave mine in the garage with no parking brake set.
Alan

 

Terry
So he has just stopped posting or something else? Yes it will start -- tried it today.
Alan

 

Alan- There was a disagreement over one of our sponsors, so he is gone for good, but on the other site. Initially banned, but that was lifted.

Good habit to both put your foot on the brake and put her in neutral for a start. If the battery is low and she is in gear, F1 Ferraris have been known to lurch forward on start when the system is a bit slow selecting neutral. Not a good thing if your foot is off the brake.

Mine is left in gear in the garage with the parking brake off, too, but I always select neutral before start and you do need your foot on the brake for that. As many first time owners have discovered the hard way when sitting in neutral at a stop light with foot off the brake on level ground. Me, too.

 

Congrads! Are the tail lights wiring the same as the 360? If so I may help, otherwise nah-da!

 

You're probably right. I looked at the brake pedal switch and it's more that just a simple on/off switch. Does anyone have an electrical schematic?

 

Alan,
That's correct. I have to add a load resistor to fool the TCU (or ECU... have yet to be determined) into thinking that the brake light LEDs are incandescent.

 

I have to agree with Steve that the system not only use the stop light on/off pedal switch but also some how detect continuity from the tail/brake lights as well. Because when I had two of the bulbs from the driver side innter light assembly removed, with the key on, I saw the F1 warning light on dash lite up solid. I turn off the key and installed the bulbs and the warning light went away....Although, I am not sure if this is a purposely designed or a defect in the electrical circuitry. I am thrill the find out...sorry for being so annal///hehehehe.

 

I'm with you. It's nerve wracking to see the F1 fault light turns on when you're driving. I'm experiencing another issue with the F1 system last night while out for dinner. I suspect it's the F1 pump relay which I have just replaced about a month ago. Ugghh!

 

Any idea how to Refine the F1 system?
Other then the benefit of track use purpose, is it worth it to do a 6speed manual swap? I thought there is a thread on this forum about someone did this swap. Taken the F1 system out and swap all the mechanical stuff over, because the gear box on the F1 and 6speed are identical except the throw out bearing. The last time I read it, I left off on where "he" trying to bypass the electrical portion of this swap...
Ok, I m sorry, off track on this topic, lets talk more about F1. So, what's going on with your car lastnight Steve?

 

Mike- He did not bypass the system, he changed to three pedal Motronic DMEs. He used a mixture of used and new parts, did all the work himself, and it cost ~$5600.

 

Was it a sucessful swap, Terry?
Did you remember who was this F-chatter or the thread title?

Revise: Terry, I found the thread and reading it now. its from f-life.