Ferrari Air Conditioning A/C & Compressor Upgrade Kits
I have to say my AC was ice cold when it was charged. I have not recharged it since I redid the Rad, but I would expect it to be ice cold again. Never had any issues with the AC in my 308 QV.
You have a 308 now, Franklin? That looks like a good kit, modern fans go a LONG way to improving the whole system and the Sanden conversion from the OEM York is well known. The only thing I would disagree with is going to 134a, as it is less efficient as a product vs. R12.. Maybe a legal obligation there for them to push 134a in new systems but R12 is still legal if expensive. It works better!!
Just had the AC recharged in my 77 today. The system is unmodified. While I didn't need mittens it did cool the car on a 97 degree sunny, humid Florida day. Oil and water temps remained well within the normal range.
I know I shouldn't say this without actually laying eyes on the parts in this kit.......but..... For that money, I have serious doubts about the quality of any of those components --- unless they are being "given away at a loss", they should cost substantially more (especially at such a low volume market) if they are of good quality...... and not just generic parts store aftermarket cheapo components hodgepodged and cobbled up to jury rig into a 308. As said, a properly maintained and charged original R12 system in a 308 works fairly well actually. The 2 biggest problems that OE system suffers from are that the compressor, evaporator, and condenser are all separated by a lot of length of hose, and all the components are exposed to a lot of that "Ferrari heat" which reduces the amount of "cool" that ever makes it into the evaporator in the first place --- raising the cold side working temp of the system's refrigerant up to R134a levels (quite a bit warmer than R12) is only going to make that situation worse. There is nothing wrong with the OE R12 system or any of its components that switching to a 134a system is going to solve.
That's the kit I was going to get. There is a thread in the 308 section where it gets favorable reviews. All it really consists of is a new compressor, condensor, lines, new evap blowers. Why do you think it might be cheap parts? Just want to hear all opinions before I buy.
My A/C is running fine right now - keeps you cold even in the sun as along as you are moving. I think the biggest thing that would improve the A/C is the blower fan in side the car...just does not put out the force needed to keep the car cool in stop and go traffic... once you are going - even in a hot car - and humid - it will cool you down... more air pressure / circulation would make it feel so much better.
There's also an expansion valve. Sanden compressors / clutches are junk compared to the OE Aspera units (or even the later York units). A custom made Aluminum condenser should cost a few hundred to make. I guess that I am assuming that sales price has a 100% (at least) margin on it, which is pretty standard, and which puts the production cost at roughly $750. I just don't see sourcing, designing, and fabricating all those pieces (again, at such low volumes for a Ferrari aftermarket application) into a high quality system for that price ---- which is why I suspect they are cobbled from inexpensive generic units. But, I could be wrong. I don't know this particular outfit's business model, sourcing power, or capabilities ---- it is just my educated guess based on prior experience and manufacturing background. Also, as I said, other than the higher cost of periodic replacement / charging with R12....... Switching to R134a is in no way an "upgrade" --- in fact it is a "downgrade" in terms of cooling performance. I just spent nearly the same cost of a new system to repair my home's older R22 A/C unit rather than switch it out to an R410a system for the same reason ----- R410a sucks in performance as compared to R22.
R12 is becoming more outlawed in many states and also 134 will go the same path. I think the only way to improve the 308 AC is to get a larger condenser and evaporator.
I think you hit the nail on the head. If your car cools better when moving, I believe there is not enough air moving across the condenser when stopped. Maybe more powerful condenser fan? Ago
Never ever change from R12 or an R12 substitute for these cars. The condenser is plenty big. The issue is volume of air from the evap box, even at full whack it doesn't move a lot of air inside the cabin, and the volume it does push only comes from the center area of the interior. The finest R12 substitute I've ever used is ES-12, it is possibly even better than R12 because ES12 molecules are larger than even R12 which somehow (I'm no scientist) allows ES12 to react more quickly under pressure than anything else. I active my a/c compressor and almost immediately my ac is cold. Here's what you do: change all a/c hose seals with green a/c seals, you can pick up a box at any auto parts store and it will have various sizes that will do the job. change the a/c drier (a quick search will show Napa part #s for these next two parts) change the evap coil add new correct oil to the a/c compressor (Napa will have this too), these old Aspira/York units are incredibly robust so chances are it's fine albeit they do suck a bit more power than a modern Sanden rotary compressor. start the car, turn the a/c to full whack. attach the a/c charge hose to the suction side of the a/c hose port, charge with about 2 cans of ES12. Done. The only catch is you must use ES12 only after this change. I've been running this for 2-3 years now and have performed the above on 4 70s and early 80s vintage Ferrari's now and it's an amazing transformation for this system. It works
Understood. I just asked because they have a great rep with the vintage crowd, especially the Porsche crew. I haven't heard a bad thing about them.
Where have you seen a new evaporator coil? I thought it was custom sized for the enclosure and didn't think a replacement was available.
I see an AC expansion valve on the cross reference list from a 85 Ford van but there is no mention of an evaporator coil. I could've be wrong but thru my search this morning I haven't found any source for a replacement coil in any of the AC threads.
The high side and low side hoses are not the issue, it's more the sealing strips on your hood, around the radiator, and blocking any openings you can find in the firewall under the dash. I think modern blower motors are the single biggest thing. I replaced my Lucas radiator fans with Grainger 12V DC units, they draw less than half of the amps and spin much faster, to the eye... SPAL on the later cars, that have the fan housing on a slanted radiator
Also, a huge difference is that since the compressor is driven directly off the engine, it is pumping much harder and faster with the engine at speed as opposed to at idle (where the compressor is barely adequately running). I used to wrap the exposed sections of the hoses in the engine compartment and front bonnet compartment with EPDM (or Neoprene) foam pipe insulation (the same black, slit-tube, stuff used to wrap home A/C lines and other plumbing lines). You can't get at the hose sections that run through the rocker panel obviously, but they are pretty well isolated from heat already. Unfortunately, there is also the issue of the pressure drop across the long length of hose, but nothing can be done about that ---- that's just an inherent efficiency loss with systems that have their compressors at one end of the car, and the condenser coil at the other. I agree also with what others have pointed out --- switching to better blower fans on the evaporator is beneficial, too. TEX --- Do you recall the Grainger p/n of the fans you used ?
No problem! I've been researching this forever trying to figure out a best course of action and just anted to make sure I didn't somehow miss the evaporator coil info.
You do sound sold on this Enviro-Safe 12. Isn't this a just special formulation of Propane? They do say it's flammable though I wonder if that's such a big deal? Why can't you switch back to R12 if the system is evacuated? They talk about NOT pulling much of a vacuum before charging which is the only way I know of to remove any residual moisture. Their website is definitely not oriented towards technical people.
It's flammability is at very high temps, this was the only reason it wasn't EPA approved. That said, I'm more concerned about driving around with two full fuel tanks in their precarious positions ferrari opted for than I ever would be with es12. I imagine if one wanted to go back to r12 it could be done, never tried though.
Retro air makes a/c kits for many cars and many components used in the Ferrari kits are the same that are used in other kits they make. I have one of their kits installed and all components are top quality. The blower motor, cage fans and condenser are custom made and are also of high quality. I don't represent them but some here are making totally unfounded statements as facts when they are anything but. The only issue I had was a few little items that needed switching as the system was designed for an fchatter here and as we know there is always variation between the carby, injected and QV models. In my opinion these two kits they offer are a nice quick easy one stop purchase. Go for it.
Good to know. I'm probably going this route. I've researched them pretty thoroughly I they seem to be legit. The Porsche community loves them.
