I viewed the Plus at Goodwood. Everything is original to the 0384AM car, as viewed at the Goodwood display. Every piece not used in the restoration is present. The ONLY piece missing , and not 100% original are a few sheet metal pieces to the original coachwork – but 80% of that is there. Original are : tank,gauges,rear-end,brakes,gearbox,engine. 100% of the chassis is original, what was repaired/replaced was numbered and saved. In addition, I note this: No one renumbered this car. It has been always 0384AM, and never was restamped – never. That seems a rumor started on this thread to discredit Jacques Swaters. The only piece that was numbered 0394AM was the engine built from parts, BEFORE the original engine 0384AM was purchased. The chassis was never stamped 0394AM, nor a chassis plate stamped 0394AM. All documents refer to 0384AM, even the Swaters FIA papers from the 1990’s, and all Swaters BOS from the 1990 sale. When raced on the track in the 1990’s, it had chassis plate 0384AM.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJMQueM8M7o]The Goodwood Festival of Speed Sale Press Launch March 2014 - YouTube[/ame]
Certainly you can't be referring to the initial report of renumbering, as it appeared in the 2nd post, by Mr. Massini. (Mr. Massini's original post is longer and addresses much more of the case. I have included this piece of it because it's the first time renumbering is mentioned in the thread). I can personally attest to the discussion of the renumbering dating back to the year 1990. Before then, I cannot because my involvement only goes back that far.
Taking on the identity is one thing , actually restamping the car is what I was talking about. I see no evidence of a restamping of the chassis 0394AM in this thread, or a 0394AM chassis plate. Nor is the 0394AM number used on any official document. Please post a photo of the re-stamped chassis plate, or a stamping on the chassis showing the number 0394AM, otherwise it’s just blah-blah.
I find the write up in the catalogue quite amuzing. "On or about jan 13 1989 this car wS removed unbidden from Kleves land......" A polite way of saying stolen. Or as we Brits would say. Nicked.
Rumor of an "administrative hold" being placed on the title in Ohio. Apparently/allegedly this precludes any transfer of title.
^ so does that mean someone is buying a legal headache, having to pay for all subsequent court actions?
a legal transfer cannot be effected without a clean title / ownership... all of which would take place before any real transfer can be considered, especially with the legal history of the car and true ownership ( distribution of proceeds )still not crystal clear... in light of the recent disclosures regarding legal rights / ownership, it would not be surprising if the auction were delayed... in view that funds cannot be immediately distributed to the seller(s) as more ownership questions are coming forward clouding the situation to a clean transfer... why pay for something that has a cloud hanging over it which could be reversed on some future technicality... if read correctly, the issue remains restricted to the distribution of proceeds of sale, still a cloud which can lead to more strange turn of events under US law, property gained through theft cannot be legally transferred at any time as long as the theft is NOT fully cleared, regardless of the number of jurisdictions, courts, and seemingly otherwise good titles issued...
'Rumour' ...just that only a 'RUMOUR'.. This Ferrari is being sold in the UK under English Law. I understand it will be sold with a V5 registration document... ['Start' a rumour by noon, and by 5:00 pm it will be true.] I'm off to the FOS to see this fantastic car sell.
By law, Ohio titles must be surrendered back to The Administrator of Vehicle documents of Ohio (DMV) on the exportation of any car including this Ferrari, which was legally exported twice. There can be no transfer of title to a non-Ohio resident. At an auction, under law, the auctioneer has the right to convey a clear and legal transfer of goods. Asking the auctioneer and their on-site legal team, the administrative hold was place to stop anyone interfering with the ownership interest outside of the scheduled sale in which transfer of ownership will take place.. Your post is an apparently false rumor.
Please re-read my post and your quote within it. I'm not speaking of re-stamping, nor have I ever. I'm specifically speaking of the renumbering (legally, or 'on paper' if you will) that occurred in the chain of events in Belgium that accompanied Mr. Swaters obtaining 0384. There have been a great many obfuscatory posts in this thread; posts that color, shade, or otherwise obscure the events that have transpired. It's very convenient that this car which was known to be stolen 'became' another car in Belgium as it made its way into Mr. Swaters custody. I have great (and I do not use that word lightly) respect for the reports of Mr. Swaters conduct as part of the Resistance during WWII. I do not seek to nor have I ever sought to tarnish his reputation. That notwithstanding, for more than 24 years Mr. Swaters actions have been called into question in this matter and sufficient explanation or evidence has failed to materialize to quiet them.
Thank you for adding to this discussion. Please clarify the dates and circumstances of the '2 times this Ferrari was legally exported'.
Bonhams just sold it a few mins ago for GBP 10.753.500 all in. That's 18 M USD all in. Marcel Massini
the auctioneer is just a messenger, the burden is that the auctioneer or any seller must have a clear title to ownership before a transfer / sale can occur...the auctioneer and legal council only make a determination the documents as received are true and correct to the best of their knowledge, it does not mean that the auctioneer posses the legal status to make or change a determination of what constitutes which documents are true and correct... all issues of theft must be cleared by the judicial system before any documents can be deemed true and correct, and are delivered free of defect before any legal transfer can be effected...
SOLD One rare Ferrari 375 plus: Ferrari 375-Plus is 2nd most expensive road car ever sold in Britain at auction | Mail Online ---------------------- Ferrari 375-Plus sells for $18.3 million, setting auction record for competition Fe | Hemmings Daily
Well at least the courts there will already be well acquainted with the vehicle history if the legal battles continue. >8^) ER
Around 4-1/2 years ago I answered a knock at my front door and met a man who asked me if Kristine Lawson was at home. She was home but asleep. He then said he had papers for her and asked if I would accept and sign for them. I did and was handed a 2 thick stack of papers. Thus my wife was served in the infamous Swaters v. Lawson case. My name is Ray Lawson and Kristi Kleve Lawson is my wife. Though I have viewed with interest the bantering on Ferrari Chat from afar I have never posted before today. I have had a front row seat in this matter since Karl Kleve became my father-in-law over 15 years ago. When I met Karl he had already been trying to recover his stolen Ferrari from Belgium for several years. Since I married Kristi I have been at her side as she has battled for the inheritance her father sought to secure for Kristi and her 2 sisters. My preference with Ferrari Chat has been to read only, rather than contribute. I have chosen to support Kristis efforts in the Ferrari case in another forum, which is the Hamilton County Court in Cincinnati, Ohio rather than a court of public opinion. After all, court is the battleground Swaters chose while still alive when he filed a lawsuit against my wife. However I feel that it is time to publicly speak out and let the truth be known about what has recently occurred. I dont know how the Ferrari 375 Plus #0384AM can possibly be conveyed to a new owner under the following undeniable circumstances: 1- The HOA signed by the owners and a financier in August, 2013, expired unperformed, and no London court has ever declared otherwise. 2- Regardless of the above fact, Joe Ford withdrew his Power of Attorney on September 24, 2013. 3- Regardless of those above facts, Kristi Lawson withdrew her Power of Attorney via her attorney Tim Smith on February 18, 2014. 4- Aside from the above reasons for Bonhams lack of authority to auction the Ferrari 375 Plus, Ford and Lawson won their appeal of the original court case, so now both Ohio cases are ongoing; Swaters v. Lawson, and Gardner v. Ford and Lawson. 5- Regardless of all the above facts, Gardners Ohio attorney Zach Gottesman sought and did obtain an Administrative Hold on the Ohio title to 0384AM on May 1, 2014, with the result being that no one can convey that title without an Ohio court order. 6- In addition to the above, at precisely 9:58 PM Ohio time, (which is 2:58am London time, the next day, that is the day of the auction) on June 26, 2014, Swaters attorney Scott Jones was emailing my wifes attorney Tim Smith and Fords attorney Ed Collins of Droder & Miller Co. LPA seeking to get their consent to the auction and to enter an agreed Ohio court order allowing the conveyance of title. Both Ford and Lawson, through their counsel, declined. However, on June 27, to Kristis and my disappointment, disbelief, shock and dismay, Bonhams proceeded with their auction, and 0384AM went under the hammer. One argument that Bonhams representatives had kept making for auctioning the Ferrari at that particular auction was how important the timing was for the value of that one item to be maximized. And yet, when comparing the hammer price of 0384AM to the total revenue for the auction that day, it is apparent to me that what was truly important to Bonhams was keeping the 375 Plus in to save their day. One has to wonder if Bonhams being up for sale and courting prospective buyers could have driven them to such behavior for appearances sake. In my opinion, Bonhams is out of control. They have literally resorted to auctioning the property of others without their consent, and against the State of Ohio BMV title directive. Although given numerous warnings, long in advance, I think Bonhams has likely broken U.K. law as to merchantability by representing that they could convey title, when in fact, they could not (and still cannot). In view of the foregoing, it would be a good idea for the buyer to contact our attorneys in Cincinnati, Ohio or perhaps INCE & Co International Law Firm in London, United Kingdom. If the high bidder needs a phone number for any of the above mentioned attorneys or law firms, please instant message me. I truly hope that this information, with the help of the Ferrari community, reaches the high bidder, so as to be helpful in setting matters straight. Its July 4th weekend everybody. Enjoy the fireworks! Kaboom! Love percussion!!!
Ray - Be advised that any new user's first few posts require moderator approval before becoming visible. There was no problem with your multiple attempts, just that it takes a few hours to get through the queue. Your PM capability is tied to that limitation also. Once your posts start appearing without requiring approval, you will also be able to PM.
