Sad Day?

I agree Randy.

 

Looks to me, the long and short of the story is stay away from any Ferrari to have low yearly maintenance expenses if you can't do some of the work yourself. Recently, I bought a set of SKF rear wheel bearings (not Chinese crap imitations) to keep on hand, for way less that F-parts places. Like some state, you must do some of the work and save difficult stuff for the experts.

I don't think anyone here thought they would be inexpensive machines to service. With a decent amount of reading, research and talking to owners, one could get a good idea of what they are up against for each model before buying.

On the Porsche vs Ferrari issue, Porsche is just more reliable and maintenance/parts costs are less....period. Every nut and bolt is readily available except maybe engine parts for a twin-plug. Every Porsche I ever owned would have been capable of making a drive cross country without questioning it. Check oil and go!

 

I think many Ferrari owners have experienced, to some degree anyway, the mixed emotions felt by DrewH. Ferraris are somewhat addictive to certain types of person...when you buy even a lowly 308, you are buying a little of the romance of Italy, Grand Prix racing, Niki Lauda, Gilles Villeneuve, the Ferrari family story, Magnum PI, Miami Vice, and even "Lives of the Rich and Famous". So it's more than just a car. It's a "lifestyle" or a "statement" to use the cliches.

What type of person? Well Ferraris are the classic Veblen good. The more expensive the ownership experience, the more (some people) want it. For membership of the "club" says something about your standing in society. You can afford things most others cannot. It's an "Up yours" to your neighbors, or perhaps it's a "me too" if you live in the "right" neighborhood. Of course, there are some genuine car nuts that have nothing to prove, but for every Ferrari owner who delights in the machine, there are ten who have no mechanical aptitude and just delight in being a member of the club. And yes, there are some who think a Ferrari is RX for whatever insecurity or inadequacy they suffer from.

I don't think Ferrari ownership has much at all to do with actual performance. In a country where you can barely get out of second gear before hitting the speed limit, power and handling at the limit are moot. In any case, most Ferraris' performance is not that great. Some are slugs.

Where this equation comes unglued is when the reality of paying the bills kicks in, after the romance starts to wear off. Most logical people realize that paying $1000 for a water pump every few thousand miles is not the path to financial independence. The seduction is this: the cars (particularly used) are actually quite cheap. $30-50K is affordable in today's money for almost any professional or skilled person. So a lot of people who can't really afford one, or don't see that they are walking into an ambush, buy in hoping they can. When they realize they have made a financial blunder, they get out. A little bit of maturity also changes the psychological balance sheet. When you settle down and have or family, and/or as you get older, the need to impress women is no longer a primary motivator for a man. And you are starting to think about retirement, which causes you to realize that your Ferrari is gobbling up your nest egg.

And now I will take a lot of flack. If the cap fits, wear it!

 

I also believe no one buys a Ferrari solely for the high performance driving experience. for the $65k you would spend on a good 355 you could buy a e46 M3 for $15k drop it at a speed shop and $40k later have a 550hp turbo charged street beast that would out accelerate and out corner a 355 in reverse. (kidding about reverse but you know what I mean) The thing is it would get lost in a parking lot. When you pull into a place it would look like a old BMW.
I think this thread is about some peoples experience with the 355. I believe the people that talked about their ownership could afford the costs that the car rang up but they werent getting any payback from the car just more bills.
My interest in all of this is if I was in their same shoes could I have saved some money on maint and repairs..
people arguing the story is all the same or it couldnt have been done cheaper. That I dont believe it cost that much because I didnt see documentation is like static to me. I am genuinely interested how people spend the cost of another car or more on a 355 driving it only 22,000 miles

 

The lag is the special great thing about a 930! I allowed my 23yr old to drive it - he knows not much about Porsche and nothing about Turbo...anyway. I asked (at one point) he goose it a bit...the 930 started to come alive...he started to grin...then much to his surprise the Turbo kicked putting us back in our respective seats!! His eyes got big, he looked at me and said "holly S$$$ I did not expect that!!!!". I was LMAO...what a great bonding moment.

 

Great write up Russ...spot on. I doubt I will ever drive mine over 80 or drive crazy up Mullholland. Don't need to prove anything or the headache if anything grenades. I enjoy it for the Ferrari it is.

I too don't understand the 930 slug thing?? I have driven a few that definitely weren't slugs. I have even driven 944 Turbos that were rockets. Had 2 of them in the day. Even got up one morning and decided to drive my '86 to Yosemite and back one weekend without a worry I would make it and back......

 

You're being obtuse. Ferrarichat is full of anecdotal evidence of problem areas for all models. Two long term 355 owners have posted here in this very thread plus there are thousands more throughout each models' subforum. Because you don't want to believe what these two guys have to say why don't you take a look at the 355 subforum. Just because it's on the Internet does not make it true but the reverse is also true. Why would these guys post their stories?

Not everyone has the mechanical aptitude or the time to self diagnose and fix issues. Just because you can it is wrong to assume all owners can.

It's also a mistake to discount OEM parts and factory service. There are strong reasons to choose an independent mechanic and aftermarket parts but there are also strong reasons to choose factory service and OEM parts.

 

A 30 year old multiple owner Ferrari is expensive to maintain and breaks a lot?

Shocking. Who knew?

Things need to be put in perspective.

 

Obviously you didnt read anything I have posted or you couldnt understand what I've written
I have stated a few times I believe them
That I have talked to Drew personally through private chat
That I understand some people have or choose to use only dealer service and OEM parts
That I would love to see a detailed records and repairs to see if I personally could have avoided some of these costs
That said you were pretty much wrong about everything... Is it time to start drawing pictures again so some people will get it?

I never ever said I didnt believe them or that their expenses couldnt be justified... I said I am curious about where all that money went

 

What is even more ironic (or is karma the better choice of dialect), is that the man who took over for Enzo and wanted to make his mark by introducing the 355 was the one trashing the 348...the infamous quote "the 348 is the worst Ferrari ever made...."

 

An aside (Re: Don't mean to Hijack..)
1) Thank you for voting for provincial and federal politicians that are encouraging and subsidizing the Chinese buying Vancouver.
2) When the bubble pops (in toronto area as well), and it will.. how will the average BC income afford the average million dollar house? I've been tackling this for a while now..

 

No one is criticizing you Drew and I hope you didnt feel that way. I am not the kind of guy that can drop 10g without feeling the sting. Your story scared the $%#@ out of me..I'm just wondering what I could do different if I end up in your shoes..

 

DrewH, I completely get what you are saying....These things are expensive to fix when things happen. Parts are crazy...I thought Vovo Penta boat parts were crazy. My ex- boat guy charges $130 Hr and that includes his TRAVEL TIME!! Needless to say, I do my own.

The key is get a good set of tools, read, learn and go at it as much as possible. If you don't have the time, then you have a problem..... choosing between a Porsche or a Lexus.

 

Sorry if I mistook what you wrote.

I can tell you from my Ferrari experience is that it depends on what the issue slip that dictates where the money goes. In some cases parts costing merely a few bucks are subject to "Ferrari Tax" and are marked up many times what they are worth. A lot of the subforums have cross reference threads to help alleviate that. That being said most dealers shy away from cross referenced parts and stick to OEM. There are liability issues there which are understandable from a dealers perspective.

Other times it is massive amounts of labor to replace inexpensive consumables. Like a belt change on a 355.

Another issue is that some models had inherent issues from the factory. The melting plastic interior bits have been an issue for years. It is well known the 355 has header and valve guide problems on some model years. I would call these issues good old Ferrari engineering. Combine all of the above with abuse because a lot of people drive them like they stole them and the dollar signs really add up.

Experience shows that they are simply expensive cars to maintain. The parts are expensive and the inexpensive consumables are hard to get to. Even the more reliable models like my 328. I bet I'll drop $6k in it for a major and other "while you're in there" stuff later this year.

 

No flak here -- great write-up.

Only thing I'd suggest is that for some of us (me for example), it's not really an ambush. The purchase prices are attractive and the service/maintenance for some (308/328, F430 come to mind) are actually more attractive than the depreciation and repair costs on newer stuff. A $5000 major on a 308/328 sounds bad, but $100,000+ in initial depreciation on a 599 sounds catastrophic.

Also, I find the 308/328 to hit the bullseye in terms of driving engagement -- they feel exotic, look exotic, and feel like they're descended from something that earned its keep on a track. Image aside, they're amazingly evocative cars.

For the 355, the math never worked for me. I'm with Drew in that a string of five-figure service/repair bills would cause me to throw in the towel. And yes, I understand that a mechanic could do his own work and save a ton. But the assumption that all classic Ferrari owners should be techs isn't all that realistic.

 

The dealers are prohibited by the terms of their dealer contract from using any parts not supplied by Ferrari with a few exceptions like batteries and tires. Rightfully so for several reasons. Ferrari has a right to control the products and services that bear their name. Also the dealers are required to provide warranty coverage on service work and without the use of OEM parts warranty claim compensation is not possible.

Ferrari extends warranty coverage on the parts they sell over the counter as well. I as most other shops offer warranty coverage on our work and that liability weighs on our parts purchasing decision making. The Ferrari dealer makes sense in many cases.

Do it yourselfers have few of these considerations and little at risk in either money or reputation. We haven't that luxury.

 

I am with Randy on this. I just had my major done by an independent who also works on my German cars, add CV boots,(OEM), custom made(321s/s) installed, high flow cats installed. This cost me more than all of my other German and Italian cars put together. It is what I expected. I never thought ownership was going to be cheap. Everything is relative. I had a custom set of headers made just like the OEM design. When I went shopping to do this project I had spoken with all the current mfgs., four other custom shops before I ended up choosing the company to build mine. Prices were all over the board. Two were cheaper than Tubi, two were around the same give or take, and out of the five one was significantly more. I tried a High Flow cat that some other members had recommended and it seems to be good. Cost was reasonable. If they become problematic I will deal with it at that time. I enjoy the challenge and research of it. I have learned a lot from owners and techs on this forum.

While I was driving it today, I was thinking to myself that this is a great car. It is beautiful, sounds great, comfortable, point and shoot steering, handles great, although it could use more power though. I also know that is relative.

With any car there are going to be good attributes and bad. I guess it all depends on the level of tolerance. Most Italian cars fall into the category of being very expensive compared to the average automobile, even the ones that are supposedly reliable.

 

Why dont people ever mention how many of these cars were BUTCHERED , and the work had two be done TWO TIMES to correct it ?

I can only imagine the DISASTER that occurs over the odd weekends with a case of 24 and a few buddies.

Many people have no BUSINESS in these cars.

 

Yea but the butchering is also done by many of the shops that do $5000 majors and $500 CV boot jobs too. You know, the shops that many here brag can do the same work for less?

 

The fundamental problem with this tread is the propensity to call something a piece of crap based on maintenance costs.

You're paying for a service. In this case the service is the ability to enjoy the overall experience of a type of car. If the price is too high to get in then don’t; when the price becomes too high to stay in then get out. But don’t call it a piece of crap because it doesn’t fit into a self-proclaimed definition of what reasonable maintenance costs should be. Using that same logic would you call some modern cars pieces of crap because their depreciation is more than what you think it should be? I don’t think so.

The OP did the right thing by getting out when there was no more ROI for him. Doesn’t mean that every other car of that type is a piece of crap.

Speaking of maintenance costs and ROI, back to the Lamborghini section

 

Larry, you and I are on exactly the same page. Buying "any" used Italian car is like playing the stock market, better hope you get lucky and pick the right one.