Enough with the Flappy-Paddles only

If you do not care about going faster, why do you want a new Ferrari? If you care about going faster, why would you want a 3 pedal car? It makes no sense to say you want a 458 with a manual transmission because you 'don't care about going faster.' If that's true, just buy a 430 with a manual trans. I don't get the debate.

 

The 458 has a different suspension than the 360 and 430. I think that this is what makes the drive more satisfying. I'd like the 458 with its refined suspension and a manual tranny. 360 and 430 get nervous as you push it.. despite the refinements of retrofitting CS and Scud suspension components IMHO.

 

"Welcome to the grand allusion..." I have a BWM M6 and (I assume a 458 would be the same) we're not really in control of the shifting. A computer (the car) is really allowing us to "pretend" an allusion. If I don't down shift my M6, say coming to a red light, it will do it for me. Same thing with up shifting, the car will not let me potentially hurt anything if I mess up an up shift. With a true manual, you do it right or the car will not move.

I love my M6 as a DD, and would not want a DD manual, but when fetch me some coffee on Saturday, I enjoy the "real" fun, control and excitement only a real manual offers.

Sadly, the only reason why I don't by a new FCar (a 458 for example) is because, to me, it would be boring.

As a primitive strike, from all you BMW nay-sayers, the M6 has one of most sophisticated manual/automatic transmission out there.

 

I find these kinds of discussions rather typical of human nature.

The side losing tends to voice more opposition (aka scream louder) while the winning side is more complacent. After all, things are moving in their direction so why bother.

What you get is one side highly energized about the subject while the majority sort of shrugs and says "meh". It happens in politics, entertainment (such as when a TV show is announced to be cancelled), and technology (such as when a new operating system is introduced).

It's no different here. In the end, the survival of the manual box will depend on the market. Right now, it's not a positive sign.

The enemy is not the manufacturers. Its car buyers.

 

Pretty sure the car isn't creating an "allusion."

 

I require both 3 pedals and superfast2 for fulfillment personally : )

 

It's not that. I prefer a manual trans and would love one to be offered in a new Ferrari, so am on the 'losing' side. But, I'm also practical, and along with most that prefer a manual am in no position to buy a new Ferrari. Hence, they don't make them for me, they make them for people that can buy one and those that actually want a manual are few and far between. If enough customers wanted one, they'd build one.

 

Spot on.

Most of the "New" buyers are the wealthy & famous who can afford them; and nearly all of them want the paddles.

The "follow-up" buyers (most of us) are left to fight over the scraps of whats left in the ever dwindling pool of used gated shifter cars.

If Ferrari could design & manufacture a lower-cost, minimalist V8 car with the gated shifter, that would be the revelation for most of us.

 

I would be one of them. That is the only thing stopping me from getting a 458 (although I may have a change of heart in the future)

 

I would love to have a three pedal 458. I would like to see someone retro one into it. I think that the cost would be astronomical and it is not something I would try. I saw a post about it costing maybe $10,000 which made me laugh. I would think that X that by 10 would be some what closer to what it might cost.

 

I must admit I love both. Manuals are fabulous and engaging and require skills that once well honed are immensely rewarding. If you are in this camp, there are tons of fabulous cars that have 6 speeds; 550, 575, 3x8 even 430. So if that's your thing buy one of those. On the other hand the flappy paddles are incredible too. I can tell you that getting the tires boiling hot on an F12 and then pressing your foot to the floor and banging up through the gears without lifting off will make you swear and laugh out loud in equal measure and it's a sensation I'd want every Ferrari fan to experience.

So the important bit here is you are driving a FERRARI, the way you change gear is secondary and there are great things to both, so let's all come toghether and enjoy! With peace and love ...

 

Please keep in touch. Im still holding out hope that someone can come up with a proven conversiom kit for the 458,599, and scuderia. I am hoping to do exactly what youre saying.

 

Hah! Im curious to hear the response to this. Why even flip paddles just leave it in auto mode soon that will produce the fastest shift speed of evrything

 

My point is that the reason why so many here claim to want a manual is because they are being phased out. It scratches a nerve. It's a classic case study in bias.

Most people don't care because... they don't mind. Those who are left can only complain. The more tenuous the situation, the louder, more vocal, and more excited the complaining becomes.

You are correct in that manuals are not being phased out because car makers have some kind of hidden agenda, although I'm sure some fuel and emissions regulations are helping push to a more automated format.

But the real reason is because of consumer tastes. Unless that reverses, the manual will become as rare and bizarre as an 8 track tape.

The long term future is the BMW i8, not manual cars. That's what consumers want. That's what consumers will get. I would be completely surprised if at some point in the replacement 458's future there isn't a variation of the platform with a smaller engine and hybrid drive, perhaps using one of Maserati's V6's.

 

You must be blind then. Because a 458 doesnt look like a 430 at all. It makes sense to say you want a 3 pedal 458 because you might simply prefer the way the 458 looks to the 430. The fact that it's faster, better finished and has better amenities are a plus. And it's new so you dont have to buy used. Anyway, it's all talk since they do not offer a manual 458. But still..a retrofit kit would be amazing.

 

I'm sure it could be done for $50k or so. Some of the 458 race cars had a single clutch trans due to rules banning dual clutch units, so it has, in essence, already been done. Or just pull (or order) the parts from a 430. If anybody with the means to buy one really wanted a manual trans, it would have been done by now as it could probably be done for less than the cost of all of those useless CF bits covering the interior on an optioned out one.

 

Lots of aston Vanquish converted to manual.

 

I'll PM you tomorrow what I have for the 599..

 

No rush. Im far from being ready to buy a 599. Though maybe in a few more years.

 

Of all the Ferraris I've driven over the years I've never driven a F1 gearbox. To be honest I'm not all that fond of them. If given the opportunity I'm sure I would enjoy it but I love the feel of a gated shifter. You just feel more connected to what the car is doing, that's all.

 

There's always Morgan for those who think their favorite marque is moving into the future too quickly.

You don't have to buy the argument. The sales figures have shown that Ferrari buyers overwhelmingly prefer the faster DCT/F1 gearbox. Apparently three-pedal isn't a significant market segment -- look at the percentages of 599, F430, etc., that were ordered with three-pedal gearboxes. Buyers want modern technology in their modern cars, and classic technology in their classic cars.

The OEM first gen paddle shifts were terrible, so it had to be done to keep values from crashing.

 

And, this is the second version of bias -- fear of change.

You've never tried it but you're sure you won't like it.

That's not a criticism of your feelings. It's human nature. Change always scares us. We feel comfortable with one method and being forced to accept another causes resentment.

I would argue that if the manual gearbox never existed, you would say the about paddle shifters if someone tried to change you to manuals.

Humans don't like change. The problem is they are always changing things.

 

If there was a large enough market for manuals, manufactures would still be offering them, bottom line. Sadly there isn't and the out dated manual is disappearing at an alarming rate. Auto makers like Ferrari or Lamborghini could be cashing in and offering a manual for an additional 50k or more however the biggest problem for them is that a gated 7 or 8 speed manual transmission might be a little awkward.

 

It's not about change, it's about some personal satisfaction in executing a skill. Who here would golf with clubs that guaranteed a hole in one, or go the range with a gun that never missed. In the not too distant future the Army will field laser guided .50 cal rounds, but is this technology something you want? Are you going to come back from the range and tell your friends, "Hey I fired a thousand rounds today and hit the bullseye every time."