308 a/c improvement

We just put a rotary compressor and a few new components on my 86 328. I have duct temps in the low 30's F in GA in the summer. We used a Sanden 507 compressor. My lines were fine. We replaced the drier and expansion valve and made sure all the electrical was ok. System uses 135a and will freeze your right knee cap while driving. ( due to the duct location in the 328. ) This is a great mod and was not very expensive. I don't actually care about working AC in an old car, but it helps to preserve resale value if the system is all there and works. Whats also nice about the rotary compressors, is you do not get that "bog" when you turn on the AC. the engine idles and revs with no change, whereas the piston compressors use more power to rotate.

 

IIRC the flash point temp of ES-12 is about 200 degrees C higher than that of 134a. There should be absolutely no problem with fire hazard. It is not pure propane/butane . It has other components as well as flash inhibitors IIRC. I have used it in a non-modified R-12 Mondial T system for several years and am very happy with it; so far no problems. There are guys here on Fchat with more extensive experience that I have.

 

Thanks.

 

I installed a Retro Aire kit since I live in Florida and drive my '84 308 QV Euro regularly, even on the hottest summer day. I had experience with them from two other cars ('74 TR6, 76 Porsche) and while their instructions are not perfect, their kit works well and is easily worth the price. I am a retired engineer with a collection I maintain and I have two lifts which are very helpful. I also upgraded the cooling fans (to one 10" and one 12") and had the radiator serviced. I also did the belts, pulleys and engine service since I was "in there". I added a switch across the fan temp switch so I can run both fans continuously on hot days.

 

Thanks for the info! I appreciate the confirmation.

Any tips as far as what I should do to make this kit easier? How long ago did you do it? I heard their instructions were improved.

 

Does anyone have issues with condensation water not draining out and backing up into the dash outlet hose, or dripping into the passenger foot bay?

 

I completed the AC, timing belts, etc in April. I say a day in the rear to remove the compressor and bracket since access means pulling the wheel, liner, and snorkel. Go ahead and drain the coolant. This is a great time to do the engine service which is really very simple. Then a day in the middle to remove the evaporator box, take it apart to flush, clean, and reseal, install the new circulation fans, etc. Then a day at the front to remove the condenser, fans, and radiator (great time to send it out for reconditioning). Then about a days labor at the rear, and at the middle and the front for installations. But you also need to make brackets for the new Hayden condenser fans. My times are expecting this is your first time, you understand the principles of auto AC, and that you have a lift. You will find excellent Ferrari.chat articles on the AC install including pulling the hoses through and on making the fan brackets. Pulling the hoses through is easy with 2 people after removing the gas tank, front wheel and liner, but after you pull the hoses through you have to crimp on the fittings - so you need to borrow/rent that crimping tool. I did try to help Retro Aire with their instructions particularly concerning the lo/hi pressure switch. Also I noted a conflict between the lo pressure charging port and the air intake snorkel since to access that port I have to remove the RR wheel, wheel liner and the snorkel. I also vacuumed and charged my system since there were too many complexities to trust this to a shop, besides it was an excuse to buy more tools! Note that my car is a Euro w/o polution stuff but I do have a very complex stereo system with too many amps and wires to count and an extensive security system, also with wires running everywhere.

 

I have my evaporator enclosure apart and I can say that my drain hole after all these years wasn't 100% open. If your drain line is in one piece odds are your eval drain is also clogged. More than likely it's from the disintegrated foam.

Thanks for the info. I'm doing quite a bit to my car (also a Euro) and I thought it would be a good time to address the AC while everything is apart. I have already run the coolant lines, replaced the radiator and I already have the fuel tanks out. I also have the interior stripped to the bone. I have project creep real bad!

I just redid my evap enclosure box. I'll try to find someone who can flush the eval for me.

 

The evap replacement fans, available from several sources and part of the RA kit, are a big improvement. The evap can be easily flushed while in the box, auto parts stores have a big can of the stuff with the procedure, friend in the business said many just use engine degreaser. Also important to then flush with clean air and make sure no oil or debris remains. I think the small OEM evap is now my weakest link. MY AC works great but if the car sits in hot sun for an hour then I put windows down to flush out hot air and it takes the AC a little while to cool everything off, I think due to small evap, big windshield and (black) dash. Got new windshield sunscreen to fit on the outside that may fix that problem. Think the barrier hoses with oring fittings, necessary for 134, Sanden style compressor and condenser fans were the biggest improvements. I took lots of pics so let me know if you have questions. I'm very interested in your interior lessons learned - especially materials. Mine is good but there are signs of dyeing.

 

Has anyone replaced just the interior evaporator fan with an upgraded unit for more airflow?

My original system has 34F degree vent temps after charging the system with R12. If the temp is below 80, or the sun isn't out, the system will make the cabin frigid, but it seems there is not enough air volume on a very warm day.

Is a solution available to make the original system better without complete replacement such as the RetroAir system?

 

There is an upgrade for the fan motor somewhere out there but I'm not fully certain which fan motor it is, but apparently it moves a great deal more air. Anyone able to post the motor? I'm sure I read about it somewhere here in the past.

 

or just call Rock at Retro Air and get the one they sell with their kit. Remember you will (likely) have to remove the evap box to install the fan so you will have to break the integrity of the system and then vacuum and recharge. But this is a great time to clean out the old foam, flush the evap and reseal the box. If your system is otherwise working I would definitely start with a new evap fan. I agree that airflow is a major issue, right now I am working on getting more air along the far left and right hand ends of the dash - I think I have enough flow just need better dispersement.

 

So I was experimenting. Unlike modern cars there is no recirculation of the interior air. Therefore the air coming into the cabin may be backing up and providing a pressure against the cold air coming in from the outside through the a/c vents. I tried just cracking the windows a bit to reduce this back pressure and no question cooler cabin temps.

 

Guess all models are a bit different. My 82 has only inside air recirculating. I evacuated the system after replacing the seals and the compressor oil and used r134a. Our model only has a center vent under the radio but it keeps the car at a nice temp. The engine temp and oil temp are a bit cooler then without the AC as the duel fans run full time with AC on.

 

On my car only one fan comes on with the A/C the other cycles as usual.

 

If you genuinely noticed an improvement, then so be it. But, the 308 cabin is not so primative that it lacks passive venting (like most any other car) --- so, positive pressure build up inside should not be an issue. May want to check that the vents are not clogged / obscured....

 

I know how this works on the GTS - you remove the roof panel. But other than than removing the roof and having the cabin be unintentionally leaky, is there an exit vent somewhere on the GTS?

 

On mine, it's called "the passenger window"(not sure if I got the translation from Italian correct). I'd always thought that it refused to close the last 4 inches because I hadn't recabled / installed relays, but perhaps it's a design feature...


W

 

Not sure what passive vents you refer to. Can you provide a diagram or picture?

 

Early GT/4s had slots in the panel above the rear window. They were later discontinued.
Anyone know why?

 

Great information, guys. This will be my next project, as I had been led to believe that the air conditioners in 308's just didn't work all that well. Knowing that they can blow cold is all the incentive I need to make them do so.

Perhaps the info in this thread could be made a sticky?

 

Anyone know if this will work on a GT4? My winter project is to put the AC back in and i've been locating parts on eBay and the normal suppliers, but this kit seems to eliminate all the hassle.

 

I just ordered this kit from Retro Air this afternoon for my 308. I'll be sure to start a thread when I get started with the installation.

If any of you have any questions just call and talk to Rock directly. He's very helpful. I have no affiliation with them btw.

 

And eliminates $1500.00 from your wallet too. For that money, I will put up with my lousy R12 system, thanks.

 

Properly maintained the original system isn't lousy. Mine is adequate for all but the hottest and most humid Florida weather.