Dealer says "Cats worn". After 12K miles? Possible?

I am in the process of vetting a 5.2 gated B with 11.8K miles.

During my test drive the CEL and Airbag light were both solidly lit during the entire time.

Seller claims it is a recent development and promptly took the car to the dealer. I asked to see a copy of the bill.

They replaced the airbag module at a cost of $1,300.00 to address the light.

For the CEL, they state;

"Customer states check engine light on.
Cats worn codes stored. Customer declined repairs."

Is this reasonable? What are the common problems that lead to premature cat failure? Cracked headers, valve guides? To my knowledge car has original headers and guides?

A separate question. For those running test pipes, notwithstanding smog inspection issues, is there a way to configure the setup so the CEL isn't on perpetually but still retain CEL functionality for other legitimate issues. Same for SDL?

 

Too much heat and extra un burnt fuel can kill the CAT's. I'd stay away from test pipes, Ken. I looked into it and I don't think it's work the work and possible headaches.

 

How about hyperflows? Seem to be a popular option on the board. Although at this point I'm more concerned about the underlying causes of the cat failure. What should I be scrutinizing?

It also doesn't help that I have no faith in the diagnosis of any dealer of any marque.

How can I independently verify the condition of the cats?

 

possibly take it to have a tailpipe emission test done

 

Hi flow cats is what I have and have not had an issue.

What were the codes the dealer pulled to determine the cats were shot?

There are all kinds of issues with O2 sensors, CAT ECU's, connections and thermoccouples long before the prognosis of a dead or expired cat.

Easy to check though. Pulling the exhaust on a 355 is pretty easy to do and you should be able to have both cats on a work bench in two hours. Worth a l kook before writing a check...

 

In the past year I have replaced my OEM headers and subsequently my cats. The car had approx 20K miles on it for both of those. This a relatively common issue with 355s and yes could be at 12K miles as well.

My symptoms of Cat failure were rattling cores audible when the engine was running. I replaced them with hyperflows and replaced all the O2 sensors and added a ground wire as well. I did this work myself.

You may well need Cats but then again you may not. The code diagnosis and fix is a story in itself if you are a hands on owner I would work through them yourself. It might just be sensors and other things rather than cats. If you aren't going to get into it yourself then you are going to have to rely on a shop and you may end up with new cats and sensors minimally to start.

I had an airbag code last year that was cleared by a shop and it hasn't come back and so far I haven't needed an airbag ecu.

 

Measure temps at inlet of cats and outlet with a laser thermometer. Simple test of cat goodness. Google "how to test catalysts"
They're probably ok, but who knows without testing?

 

I'm an advocate for the Fabspeed cat cores welded into the original cats. Stock look, stock fit, no CEL issues and high performance all at a cost that is less than Hyperflows or Fabspeeds replacement performance cats. I've had them on my car for 5 months now. No issues and a clean CALIFORNIA smog check. If it passes here, it passes anywhere.

 

No cats can just go bad.

I had a another car that had the honeycomb break apart and clog the exhaust.

 

The cats might be bad but it might also be the rear O2 sensors.
As for the CEL, it can't be turned off but...

You should take the car to a good indy shop.
Dealers tend to follow the book and change parts till it works.

 

I'm assuming you do not have and SD light, just CEL.

If there is no code for the rear O2 sensor but there are codes for cat efficiency the place to start is with the cats. Drop the cats and look inside. It's not a big deal. They will either be empty or breaking up if they are bad. Also, check the tail pipes. If the cats are breaking up the tail pipes may appear to be white or have a white power on them. If the cats are working they should be black.

 

Description is "no beuno"

Before anyone jumps to conclusions lets find out what the codes are.

 

I would agree I went with hyper flows at about 20 000 because fabspeed did not have those options then. My Hyper flows have passed california emissions for 8 years and four tests.

Check engine light comes on now about 1 per year.

My guess is his cats are worn out, as someone else said get a sniff test done if it fails then cats are worn out or o2 sensors are bad. You can also tap the pipe in my case the cats were good when I bought it and went bad within 2 years and 1500 miles. When I pulled them off one was partly gone and rattling and the other had nothing in side. Completely hollow.
All the honeycomb gone.

 

John just a question but do your bypass tail pipes look way cleaner, less black then the main pipes?

 

The cats could very well be bad after 12k miles. That is a common issue with the 355. Many believe (I do) it is because of the 355 runs to rich most the time. Kills cats fast.

The car could also have an issue with the O2 sensors. They tend to be a disposable item on the 355 as well.

As FBB state above you really need to know what codes the car had to figure out what the problem is. I don't think this is a deal killer by any means. It just may be a price adjustment item or a fix before the car is sold item.

As for test pipes. I have them. I would only go back to cats if I had to pass an emissions test. I don't. The 5.2's will have the CEL come back for "catalyst inefficiency" no matter what you do. I just live with it and scan and clear every so often.

 

I have a Tubi. Exhaust flow is not separated at the tail pipes. Tubi has a single exhaust on each side that dumps into dual tips. http://www.ferrariadvocates.com/en/images/PICT1328.GIF

 

Good idea. I'll have them do that when I send it to Indy for PPI.

I have a call in to the dealer. Hopefully the have that info and will share.

I am familiar with your ongoing thread on the subject. One of my favorites at the moment, always eagerly awaiting updates.

I am somewhat hands on, have access to a lift, and friends whose mechanical ability far exceeds mine. I believe with that, plus the help of the good folks here and the wealth of info already posted, I would only have to use a shop as a last resort.

I am in NY/NJ and you can be sure at the first sign of SDL, I'll be knocking at your door.

I always tell my people when they ask me certain questions, "Google is your friend." Haha

Thanks for another simple yet effective suggestion.

I like this idea and will consider it should I be faced with the issue. Plus Fabspeed is not that far from me.

Not sure if you meant;

No, cats can just go bad (meaning nothing else wrong with car)

Or

No cats can JUST go bad (meaning something else is probably wrong).

I think it's the former.

My sentiments on dealers exactly.

The test drive was only 15 mins and not very spirited so I don't think it was long enough to trigger an SDL if there is an issue.

Will try and get the codes and report. I will also look for the visual clues.

Will do.

I agree. I'm going to require the seller to adjust the price by the estimate of the dealer to replace oem cats.

When you clear the code, how quickly does it come back?





Thanks everyone for the info.

My main concern is whether or not there is some other underlying cause for the cat failure (if thats what it is) that I should be looking for.

From what I gather, the answer is no.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I have a 5.2 car and a set of Tubi test pipes that I plan on installing soon. What headaches do you think this will cause? The only thing I found was a check engine light.

 

The post CAT's O2 sensors will alarm and give you CEL's. There are some work arounds such as extenders to move the O2's sensors or O2 simulators. You do run the risk of fuel trim problems and I'm told (cannot confirm or deny) that test pipes will cause a smell that you may not enjoy.

 

UPDATE:

Dealer did not retain actual P code #'s but did note following info:

Left Cat Warn
Right Cat Warn
Secondary Air


What do y'all think?

 

I dunno. I would call BS. Pull the codes....it takes 3 minutes and that includes the cup of coffee.

Secondary air pump runs for 90(?) seconds and pumps air into the headers to accelerate the oxygen delivered to the cats and get them to temp quicker. If that pump (or solenoid) is bad, the cats will not get to temp and toss a code.

What is a left / right cat warn???

Hummmm, In my humble opinion, get the codes or leave.

 

Yup agree

Soulds like the start of bending you over get a second opinion that makes sense

 

Gotcha. The smell won't bother me, and I did buy some 90 degree "spacers." I'll probably still get a CEL but as long as it doesn't cause any mechanical damage I'm ok with it.

 

The car is being dropped off for a PPI at an Indy of my choosing. I've asked him to make a differential diagnosis.

I assume the dealer cleared the codes and the light. The car will probably have been driven less than 50 miles between dealer and my Indy. Hopefully the codes come back for him to pull.

 

I'd suggest you do lot's of research. I vetted this recently and decided against it. Better off getting hyperflow CAT's and get ride of the muffler via challenge exhaust if you want a loud car.