I'm a pilot. Most likely I would have tried to land on the beach myself if there were no "crowds" of people. I used to live in Sarasota a much larger population than Venice Beach. Most times in summer there are very few people on the beach (it's just too hot). I could be likely that the father and kid were in the water. It looks like the left wing hit something. If the pilot says he didn't see anyone then it was just bad luck for all. bob
I also grew up in Sarasota and flew out of Johnny Lowe's strip and Sarasota-Bradenton. I have landed on Siesta Key Crescent Beach and farther south in the old days when there weren't many people. I had an incident when I was landing a Stearman and my girl friend , sitting in the front pit, became very agitated and was shaking her hands "No-No". I applied power for a go-around and as I was starting to climb I saw the wing of a Champ flash by under us. The instructor/pilot broke a long standing airport rule not to pull off the runway to the right because that shoulder had been allocated to the heavier airplanes for landings to save tire wear. So. it can happen that objects can be hidden under the nose when landing BUT I would think that this pilot could have visually swept the beach on approach. A water landing just off the beach in a Piper would no problem if he made a normal landing. The water is shallow and there would be plenty of time to get out and WADE to shore. Hard to point at anybody when all the facts aren't visible yet.
Typical Jason. I would have taken the beach. Water landings in a fixed gear aircraft are NOT 88% survivable. Guaranteed flip over with water intrusion immediately. Of course I have only been flying 39 years with 14,000 hours so what do I know (and, oh yeah, I landed on a beach once with a failed engine.)
You have got me beat and I respect your experience. I'm not saying that a ditching is always easy or safe. I was taught that , as in a wheels up, you make a normal landing. In a water landing get the airplane slow as possible and nose up a bit. I suppose that being a swimmer and comfortable in the water lessens the worry somewhat if the airplane would flip. If it is still whole, get out of it. In the case of the latest incident I can understand why he chose the beach but I can't quite understand how he missed seeing the people.
I suspect as time goes by we will hear why he made the decision he made. At that point we can say "Oh, OK I get it" or "Hang the bastard" At this point none of us know enough to say either.
Survivable for you or the folks on the beach? This isn't Sully Sullenberg hero saving 150 pax. This is some guy and his little 40 year old Piper fixed gear out having a good time.
Can you at least attempt at not sounding elitist? This guy was probably low time, scared to death and developed tunnel vision. Most likely (I would almost guarantee) he never saw the people in his panic to land. Just because he had "a 40 year old Piper/Jetski (your interpretation) doesn't make him a criminal because he failed to see them.
You are sort of making it sound like the guy was recklessly landing on the beach as a stunt, and it went bad. That's not what this was at all. It was an emergency landing as the result of a mechanical failure. Whether the guy was en route to his tea time with the Queen is irrelevant, IMO. CW
I'm not sure how else to look at it when there's a million square miles of wide open ocean to land in. That's my only point....... land in the damn ocean. You took on the risks of flying. Don't kill these people when there's such an easy option of just landing in the water. I can't be anymore clear and I don't see how you guys see it otherwise. Sorry.
Because you have never faced landing dead stick with a fixed gear aircraft in the water. Experience is a great teacher. Water landings are VERY hazardous ESPECIALLY in fixed gear aircraft. How do you know he and his passenger knew how to swim? Hard earth looks far better than WATER, I can believe you can't fathom that.
Jesus bro..... Are you just trying to completely ignore that this guy killed a father and daughter on the beach? Water landings are dangerous? Dangerous for whom? The people on the beach who were killed didn't sign on for the risks of flying in a little piper. They were on the beach doing something safe. He should've taken the ocean landing and risked killing himself. This guy killed 2 people to save his own ass. I wouldn't wish this curse on my worst enemy. I can't believe you think this carelessness is ok. Makes all pilots look like selfish dickheads. I don't have to "face a dead stick landing" to know the difference between right and wrong. We're all going to die eventually. I wouldn't save myself and kill innocent others.
You have no clue what you'd do BECAUSE YOU HAVENT DONE IT! And what's with the "little piper" ****? You think only rich asssholes should be the only ones allowed to fly? How the hell do you know this guy PURPOSELY landed on these people to save himself? Were you there? Do you have a webcam? Give me a break you pompous blowhard.
Engine dead Trying to land as slow as possible Nose high attitude Tunnel vision Visibility? Inexperience? Panic? Not everyone is a sky god, ascending the flight deck in white robes like you Jason....
Again, you're attributing an intent to mow these people down, where none existed. Had he seen them, maybe he would have chosen to ditch in the water purely in order to avoid them. He claims he did not see them. You keep going on like the guy intentionally made a decision to sacrifice their lives for his and his passenger's. I don't see that. Not based on the reporting so far. You've asked whether you could live with yourself if it had been your call. I think, and maybe I'm speaking out of school on this, but most pilots could. I know I've said I could. But, and there's no real way to get around this...only the guy in the seat could make that decision. He, and he alone, has to live with having known because of his decision, two are dead. Maybe you would have made a different decision. But, I certainly get the sense from the commentary that others wouldn't. You can see it your way, but I'd like to go back to something you said earlier: you wanted to engage in a discussion or debate about it. Which is fine. But, I don't now sense that you want to have any discussion at all. You want to throw up your hands saying, "if you don't agree with me, you're crazy." That's not a discussion. So, because everyone hasn't agreed with you (who, I think, may be in a lonely minority at this point), you're going to repeat what you've already said previously? But with more gusto. If it wasn't persuasive then, it likely won't be persuasive now without the introduction of new facts or logic. I sincerely do not feel this event will cause the private aircraft industry to implode, either, which was one of your concerns. In fact, this has, for all intents and purposes, been pushed off the front page already. It's yesterday's news. And, not in any way to diminish the losses to the family that suffered them, but two deaths are not going to cause the US to shutter the entire pleasure aircraft industry. CW
+1 I would have picked the beach first as well and I have been flying for over 30 years. It takes experience and looking out of the cockpit at everything to make the final decision of where to land. With this little information all one can really say is where their default landing attempt would be until more information changes the default. The default should be the beach if it isn't obviously crowded. It is a very unfortunate accident.
While you didn't mention it, were there any fatalities to pedestrians walking on the beach, as a result? CW
Back last century, when I was a kid and my buddy and I would tootle around SoCal, we quite often wound up at Catalina Is for a Buffalo burger. Sure, we had a couple of cheap life vests, and it's only a few miles of 'open ocean' to cross, but each time, we are checking the oil pressure, and listening for each combustion event, and checking the altimeter, and pointing to the fuel gauge, etc. It's like that skit where Laura is preggers with Ritchie, and Rob goes to bed with his business suit on. Yeah - I'm that old. So, there's a lot of beach and boat traffic in that area, and we would endlessly discuss what to do in case of the dreaded emergency. All the training we had(none) on water emergencies was pored over, and we would point to the waves, look at the options, pick a location in front of a boat for rescue(not that one, it's a sailboat! Crash in front of a power boat!). But - the single biggest effort was put in to determining by altitude, wind, and distance how far it was to some shore. We decided on a parabolic path so that we would be theoretically within glide of one shore at pretty much any time. Although Catalina is predominantly rocks. this was of critical importance in a Grumman cause all we had was the canopy. The owner went so far as to buy one of those small break-out hammers for the plexi. All those years, all those flights, my sphincter is perpetually puckered -- never a hiccup, but we were ready. And yes, we wanted to get to shore more than anything else. Ditching near a boat was a far, far distant second choice.
