Why the giant runoff areas instead of gravel traps?

If you know why do you ask?

 

It is not an artificial gimmick, it is using technology to stop cheating. I like it!!!

But it would cause accidents as the car would suddenly slow ... would be safer if this sensor triggered an immediate black flag and required a drive through of the pits to resolve.
Pete

 

+1

They were both whining that the other was going "all 4 off", but it was some of the best wheel to wheel action we've seen all year! Good, clean, old fashioned racing! The kind of stuff the "purists" lament we no longer get to see.....

Sure, they were both pushing the limits, but that's the way the track was laid out. Had there been kerbs, or fences, or Armco, neither would have pushed the limits in quite the same way.

Agreed. In qualy you really should drive between the lines.... Get too carried away, and that time is, rightly, thrown out.

In the race however....

No doubt. We also know they can do it - Monaco & Singapore being prime examples..... Don't give them the opportunity to "go wide" or whatever and they won't. Some tracks 'allow' it, others don't. As long as it's the same for all, I guess I don't have an issue.

Yep! Many complain that the DRS is too artificial..... Now we're going to start ****ing with their engines based upon '2 wheels off' or ' 4 wheels off'.

Seems to me that one thing that doesn't change during the weekend is the track layout. Sometimes exceeding the limits bites. Other times, they can gain some time. Pretty much like riding the kerbs - sometimes it's good, indeed, essential to a quick time - By all accounts, you're not going to be quick at Montreal without liberal kerb useage... OTOH, the wall of champions is awful close.

As long as it's the same for everyone, it is what it is.......

Cheers,
Ian

 

Ian,

DRS is only artifical because it enables passing because the drivers are unable to do it themselves. What I would rather see is drivers who are good enough to pass by themselves and yes of course passing is not easy. If it is, then we don't have a race.

Having a sensor detect when a driver is cheating is not a gimmick at all. Just doing a better job than flag marshalls that should be calling in cheating.
Pete
ps: Removing sandtraps to potentially improve TV ratings was more of a ...

 

Racing Safety News - Pave the Gravel Traps

 

Thanks.

John Fitch was one of a kind and is missed.

 

The white lines act as imaginary walls to show the limits of the track.
You don't go wide, or cut a corner when you can crash you car on a solid obstacle, and you don't push your rivals against a wall either (well Schumacher used to do that!).
So why do it because there is no physical or mechanical penalty?
There is no "2 wheels or 4 wheels off" to be tolerated.
Going outside the track is cheating, end of story.
And I don't buy the excuse "it's the same for everyone".
There is no compromise. You don't push the wall at Monaco or Indy, or Singapore.
I wish rules were applied, and the penalty system proposed by Vizzla seems fair.

Electronic detection of the culprit, followed by a drive through at least.
Repeated offense punished by a 30s penalty in the pits.
Third time, black flag and you are out.

It's about time the FIA grows some balls, confront bad driving and applies the rules, some national bodies are able to enforce in their home championships.

 

I don't see it as an issue. At all. It's not like we're seeing people wildly driving off track and when you see someone go marginally four off it's generally not the fastest way around the track. A few strategically placed curbs could solve it without having some stupid penalties etc.

 

Unfortunately because of the way aero is these days is that it's not about being ''good enough'' to pass (as if drivers have been getting ****ter since the 90s?), but the air generated behind these cars is so turbulent now that passing is almost impossible.

Back up until 2001-2002ish there was a nice clean ''hole'' in the air one could drive into and have a wonderful overtake. Then aero engineers started be really clever and manipulated how the air would react someways back from the car, making it extremely hard for a car to get close to the backend of their rival, let alone overtake.

It started getting so ridiculous that until end 2008, they where literally cramming all sorts of aero bits on the cars just to disrupt the air behind...the little drag they caused was worth it.

DRS is somewhat a necessary evil.

 

+1

Sure, they push the limits when they can. They know they can't do it at, eg, Monaco, and that's fine too.

I agree with Charlie - all 4 off in qualy and that time is thrown out. Fair enough.

But in the race? As Bas noted, we'd have been denied one of the best dices we've seen in a long time if they were both penalized!

I just don't see it as cheating the way some of you guys do..... Should they also keep away from the kerbs too? Is using those 'cheating'? They mark the edge of the track after all....

Some tracks and some corners, they can't do it without dire consequences. Fine. Other places they'll push the limits to be quicker. Also fine IMO.

Introducing yet more penalties for trying to go quickly makes no sense to me, at least in the race where, as I said, it's the same for all. Maybe look at what they're doing and redraw the lines the next time?.....

Want to stop it? Put some kerbs in, which I think is what they're doing in many places now.

Cheers,
Ian

 

+1

Seems to me it's the same folk that used to whine about it all being boring, there's no overtaking etc that are now whining about the DRS.

My big fear was that we'd see constant 'back & forth' like in the taxicab races. Fortunately, that hasn't happened. What it has done is break up the long trains we used to see - It was obvious the guy in front was holding everyone up, but there was nothing anyone could do to get past - Get close, lose all your downforce, drop back. Repeat ad infinitum.

Is it perfect? No, but at least the quicker guy can now get by and push and open a gap.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Each car also has its own "follow distance". If you look at how close in a race someone can stay with the Mercedes, (even if its another Mercedes), vs the williams, Ferrari, etc, you'll notice a very consistent distance.

Its about 4 car lengths for the mercedes at the last track, was about 3 for the Red Bull, and 2 1/2 for the Ferrari.

 

Guys,

I'm somewhat insulted that you feel the need to explain aero 101 to me. I've been watching F1 since the late 70's and well aware of that but guess what passing is supposed to be hard. It is supposed to be the ultimate challenge in Motorsport. Yes it is. Being fast is way below.

All car A versus car B battles have issues that make passing difficult. I used to classic race a little Alfa Sud versus v8 Fords and Holdens and my car was able to lap quicker but due to front wheel drive I used to get stuck behind them after standing starts and have to THINK and work very hard to get back passed them. I did not request a push to pass button.

In the end DRS is for Bernie's TV show to broaden the appeal of F1 to people that do not really get Motorsport and think passing is easy. Those people should bugger off and watch athletics where they race in separate lanes.

Lastly, great racers like Senna, MS, and I'm sure LH wouldn't need DRS either, etc. can pass ... without DRS. Yes loss of aero is a big pain in the butt, but it was not insurmountable except for the average drivers ... and heck it's part of the deal. Nothing needed to be changed.

DRS like a lot of modern things has lowered the intelligence of all involved ... 200 years time I wonder if human beings will still be able to speak?
Pete

 

Why assume that the dice would be any less exciting if they were limited to delineated track?

 

One or the other would have been penalized before it had a chance to develop if that's the rules........

They were both pushing the limits - of their cars, the track and, indeed, the rules. They were both slipping & sliding around, sometimes "off track".

Penalize that, and why bother?

Other places it's different, and they (mostly ) drive accordingly.... Fer sure, that dice wouldn't (couldn't,) have happened in Monaco for example.

Cheers,
Ian

 

If the track needs to be wider to make for good racing move the lines.

 

As I suggested above

Trouble is, they'll violate those new lines exactly as before.... They're racing drivers after all, they'll push & push as far as they can.

Kerbs & a long return route to get back on helps in some situations (turn 1 in Montreal?), but others, it is what it is.

Cheers,
Ian

 

My point exactly. You enforce the existing rules. Anything short of that delegitimizes the sport's authority.

 

We're going to beg to differ on this one.

You'd penalize Ronnie because he put all 4 off at Woodcote when he was chasing JYS?

Or, more recently, KI for going round the outside (off track) at Monza a few years back?

Many, many more examples of course.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

No need to differ.
Any system of rules or laws needs legimacy. Legitimacy comes from respect. Fair, sensible restrictions applied consistently and universally are the minimum requirements.

If a rule is foolish or counterproductive it should be changed not winked at with ad hoc exceptions.

 

They would probably not have done that if they knew they would be penalised!

Also, "pushing the limits" isn't an excuse when you break the rules.

 

Absolutely my point.

There are too may greys areas in motor racing. Driving needs to be more disciplined.

 

I guess you guys would penalize Mike the Bike for putting two wheels over the line right here too; ****ing cheat!.....

Sorry guys, ever since the dawn of racing they've pushed the limits. Nothing to be penalized for.
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Ian, in that you are obviously new to the sport may I point out that in that period the white lines didn't indicate legal boundaries as they do today. They were there to show the drivers where the pavement ended as there were no run off areas and going off often had dire consequences.

I do think that all F1 drivers should wear bow ties.


I think that you may have the wrong Mike BTW

 

my bad.

I got my Hawthorns & Hailwoods a little mixed up there. Sorry.