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Carbon brakes on 550

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by dell550, Aug 2, 2014.

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  1. dell550

    dell550 Karting

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    george c
    #26 dell550, Aug 4, 2014
    My 308 racer produces 400 bhp at the flywheel from a 3.0 litre 2 valve engine on 48 IDF carbs and is on course for 430 with 50mm ITB's . 150 BHP per litre is easily achievable with this engine . I already have the jenvey bodies . My engine guy is extremely experienced and has the mix of theory and practical experience that has proved invaluable .

    I can understand the worries involved in replacing major components of the braking system with parts not specifically designed for a particular car but as I have stated , I do have racing experience and will be thouroghly proving the conversion under all conditions on an air field before using them in anger on the road or track . With regards to master cylinder sizes etc , it is already stated that the 575 with carbon brakes has the same size bore as the 550 with steel discs . As far as I can tell , the 430C , 575 and 599 calipers for carbon brakes all have the same piston sizes and are interchangeable . I have a pair of yellow calipers I recently removed from a 599 and they are identical to the 430 C calipers in every dimension . Having confirmed all of this I felt confident in carrying out this conversion as apart from making my own mounting brackets it was like fitting a factory kit .
     
  2. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #27 Bas, Aug 4, 2014
    :)

    It's been a dream of mine to make a 550 ''GTO'' for a few years now. I've got a pretty reasonable idea on what I would want.

    150 bhp/liter would be amazing. Personal goal for me when I can start a project is under 1400kg and ~120 bhp/liter. Please keep us updated!
     
  3. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

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    #28 pma1010, Aug 4, 2014
    There's a wicked thread in the 308 section on this engine. Looks lovely!

    Keep at it dell550. It's all good. Very interested to know how it works in practice.
    Philip
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #29 tazandjan, Aug 4, 2014
    Philip, George- Read the thread on the yellow GT4 and its banzai engine. Fascinating. The Prodrive 550s were 6 liters and about 650 hp, but they had to last for 24 hours. Mark's engine with ITBs will be putting out well over 150 hp per liter, so anything is possible. To do that, you will probably have to rev her a bit higher, but 8500 rpm should be easily possible with new cams. The OEM cams die off at about 7000 rpm.

    I think our master cylinders will prove to be entirely adequate, and so did Ferrari.
     
  5. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro F1 Rookie

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    #30 vinuneuro, Aug 4, 2014
    +1 !!!!
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #31 Bas, Aug 4, 2014
    They where also breathing through straws ;).
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #32 tazandjan, Aug 4, 2014
    Bas- Very true, they were limited on intake size, just like the Corvettes.
     
  8. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

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    #33 pma1010, Aug 4, 2014
    While I think the 575 motor puts out plenty of power, even modest mods like Willy's exhaust seemed to uncork more so I've got to believe there's more in the top end too.

    I think the biggest issue in extracting more performance is weight. And then you've got to ask yourself what it is you are trying to do...1400 kgs is what 3080 lbs, so about 700 lbs less than she carries today. I think you'd need to fab a lot of stuff in carbon fiber to get to that and strip the interior and....

    Sorry, waayy off topic. My bad. Back to brakes. Very cool project.
    Philip
     
  9. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #34 Bas, Aug 5, 2014
    Yes the Maranello's are very heavy...I'm not sure how far Dell550 will go with his project but I've been inspired by Trev360's 360 with Challenge bits...when I get my 550 I want to follow the same path. Lots of carbon, more power...more better.

    First things first...busy selling by business and a move back to Europe. Then I'll play. :)
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #35 tazandjan, Aug 5, 2014
    Bas- Cheaper just to get a 599, but they are not as pretty and weigh even more.
     
  11. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #36 Bas, Aug 5, 2014
    Yup. But then I would have a 599, not a 550 ''Challenge Stradale'' ;). I fell in love with the 550 when I first saw one in 1996, and still am...It would very much be a project like 360 Trev's (http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/158419-360stradale-6-speed-manual-conversion.html ) the same obsession about weight but have it as if the factory intended it.

    I love the Maranello's...to me they're the perfect balance between an analogue car and modern. The V12 is awesome. With 1400 KG it'll fly...add 120/liter and it'll make a 599 GTB owner get tears in his eyes ;). I've got a pretty educated guess of what it'll cost, and I would be happier with a 550 CS than any other car (safe for the F40/F50 and a Zonda...but they are in a different league of $$).
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #37 tazandjan, Aug 6, 2014
    Bas- Then I would go for it. I have $21K in brakes on mine, so understand the need to play with her.
     
  13. dell550

    dell550 Karting

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    #38 dell550, Sep 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just got back from a 2200 mile round trip to Monza for the GP , and the old girl ran faultlessly and the brakes were awesome . Despite doing numerous passes ,(up and down) the brakes did not even flinch . The standard brakes wilted after just a few bends on the way down the Stelvio last year and it would only take one hard stop from 180+ MPH to give me a soft pedal . The carbon brakes stayed solid and consistent throughout and I am thoroughly impressed with them and wish I had done this years ago
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  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #39 tazandjan, Sep 11, 2014
    George- One of the changes on the HGTC 575Ms was improved airflow to the front brakes. Different front underbody and hose attachment points on the lower control arm. For extended use, you might see about adapting something similar to keep them cool. Makes a huge difference in temperatures in the brake system. Mine is not tracked, so not much need for me.
     
  15. dell550

    dell550 Karting

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    #40 dell550, Sep 18, 2014
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    coming down the Stelvio and giving the new brakes , wheels and tyres a damn good workout- poor VW didn't know what was going on as he was swamped by 10 rampaging Ferrari's ... a 458 is already in the corner and behind the camera car is another 599 , a 612 , a pair of 355's and a pair of 360's
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  16. dell550

    dell550 Karting

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    #41 dell550, Sep 18, 2014
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  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #42 tazandjan, Sep 18, 2014
    George- Always wanted to take that drive. You guys did it in style.
     
  18. Konadog06

    Konadog06 Formula Junior

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    #43 Konadog06, Sep 19, 2014
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    George, looks like great fun. Nice pics.
    If you have interest in the additional hgtc airflow Taz mentions, there are pics of some of these details in the parts album of my profile page. It is the upper front control arms that have an additional set of tabs on the rear side of each to mount the rear set of front brake air ducts.
    Bill
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  19. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #44 tazandjan, Sep 19, 2014
    Bill- Should have looked. Knew it was one of the control arms.
     
  20. Konadog06

    Konadog06 Formula Junior

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    #45 Konadog06, Sep 19, 2014
    Taz, you've got a lot on the hard drive ;)
     
  21. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #46 tazandjan, Sep 19, 2014
    Bill- Affirmative, and your photo of the upper arm is on it now.
     
  22. dell550

    dell550 Karting

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    #47 dell550, Oct 2, 2014
    thanks for that photo - am I right in assuming that the additional pipe to the rear of the wishbone is fed from an opening in the undertay ?
     
  23. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #48 tazandjan, Oct 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. Konadog06

    Konadog06 Formula Junior

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    #49 Konadog06, Oct 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    HGTC front under tray. Difference being the rear naca style ducts seen at top of pic.
    The mounting hole on the back side of this panel for those rear ducts will require a 2 1/2" I.D. hose with a 2" connection at the upper wishbone.
    Bill
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  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #50 tazandjan, Oct 2, 2014
    Bill- Thanks, saved that one too.
     
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