Jeez, what charm scholl did this cat go to. He makes an apology sound like, "I am sorry you have a stupid car".(which I do not think at all) Perry
Please show us the attachment that quotes an affidavit, dated October 11, 2011. I see no such an affidavit. Its just referenced in another long winded OJ post. No meat , no substance, no affidavit, no evidence . Always serious riddled facts, excerpts of excerpts . Perfect teasing for Dull Boys not paying attention. You think a fraudulent Ohio title in the name of Joe Ford Indigent and impecunious Kristie Lawson is a security interest in a billionaire's Ferrari he just paid $18,000,000 for with clean EEC paperwork ? I think its a crime against the Buyer for a thieve to have this document , a Judge not to do anything to stop its use and a crime for the State of Ohio to tolerate a crime in progress. This makes all Ferrari titles in Ohio worthless and a non-reliable document. Can understand the value at all in such a worthless scrap of paper. Without the State abiding to title law , car ownership in America can not be relied on. Sausage time !
Really nice how you make these blanket, vindictive statements about American law and our little quaint colonial way of doing things. I don't think anyone on here has impugned any European ways of doing things, (cough STEALING, cough). At least Ocean Joe produces documentation to us Dull Boys, not smoke, mirrors and dilletant bluster. Perry
I did some checking. It turns out the accusations you make against Ford are untrue and actually apply to a Christopher Charles Gardner. Court records show he has been defrauding car collectors since the early 1990's, owes attorneys for fees, has IRS tax liens, and is really an unsavory character on the run from his own identity. I will post a just a few Christopher Charles Gardner court docs though there are dozens of pages, for the London crews as much as for this board. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here are more attorney fee judgments against Christopher Charles Gardner related to a case he lost in Broward County Florida. In this case Gardner lost to a real car collector from Texas regarding a pre-war Alfa. This, in combination with the tax liens, helps explain Gardner's choice of European residency IMHO. Again, this post is for the London lawyers as much as for this board. It is also for the benefit of Bonhams and Swaters. There are many more such documents, including IRS tax liens. So Max Vito, thank you for inspiring me to post this evidence. The "super fraud" you describe is named below. Had I known this earlier it is I who would not let Christopher Charles Gardner -- the real Mr. Fraud -- near any of my business or property, nor would Ms. Lawson, or anyone else. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
There are more. Meet the real Christopher Charles Gardner as people chase him to collect on their judgment. Again, this is for the London lawyers, Bonhams, and Ms. Swaters. Thanks again Max Vito - you make this all possible. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Max, if you're not CG as you claim you are not. Also not a participant in this lawsuit, I assume, as I have not heard that you are. Why are you such a hater of Joe Ford? Why do you have an ax to grind with him, and what has Kristie Lawson ever done to you? Also don't come back spewing hate on me, as I don't know a Max Vito and you don't know me.
Ah, yes....the John O'Quinn Talbot Lago......gone, but not forgotten. Sorry, maybe a little OT, but (to Max Vito) it does point out the collector car business is a relatively small world. Especially for those that walk into the room with dog **** all over their shoes... Bonhams refunding a $18M check, will be headline news...
I wonder which enlightened jurisdiction would disregard the "party admission" that Chris Gardner made when not one but two of his attorneys of record represented to Ohio courts that the Lawson-Ford title is the one true title to #0384. I am doubtful that the London High Court is such a jurisdiction. Regardless of the prima facie objective truth of a proposition, if a party has admitted the thing to be true, that admission is thereafter binding on that party. The admission if anything is more binding if the party made the admission in support of a request for relief from the court. Conversely, any jurisdiction which would allow a party to represent a thing to be true to the court, in support of a request for relief, and later to deny the thing to be true, according to the party's needs at this later date, is a jurisdiction where title to property is less secure, than a jurisdiction which consistently binds a party to his past admissions.
That's a lot of money for what is, after all, a bitsa car... BTW was there ever a Ohio title in the name of K. KLEVE, I mean an original title from before the theft?
Regarding Ocean Joe's latest batch of court papers, this is some pretty thin gruel. What you've got is a Long Beach California law firm which evidently filed a Complaint in the Long Beach Muni Court for unpaid attorney fees in the amount of $7300, naming Chris Gardner dba West German Trading Co. as the defendant. In September 1991 the law firm served the defendant by registered mail, return receipt requested, addressed to a "Box 50091" in Lighthouse Florida. Not a "Post Office Box." Just a "Box." Sadly, service on out of state defendants by registered mail is a legal means of service under California law. But it is legally *effective* only if the plaintiff makes a showing of actual receipt by the defendant. A return receipt, signed by the defendant, would suffice. But in the absence of a signed return receipt, the service should be given no legal effect. Evidently the Long Beach law firm made an adequate showing of actual receipt, because a Long Beach Muni Court clerk did enter the default as requested. At best this is evidence that CG did not pay his legal fees to this firm. This happens often, particularly where the client is unhappy with the services rendered. And it could also be the case that CG never received the Summons and Complaint and did not know this case existed as of the October 1992 entry of the Clerk's Judgment. Next you've got a judgment entered in December 1993 by the Broward County Florida Circuit Court. It recites that in September 1993 a jury returned a verdict in favor of plaintiff Curtis Graf and against defendant CG, in the amount of $78,000. It recites that Graf offered to settle the case in December 1992 for $59,000. Evidently under Florida law, if a plaintiff wins a verdict that is at least 125% greater than a pre-trial settlement offer, the defendant must pay the plaintiff a reasonable attorney fee. In this case, the Florida guidelines set the amount of this award at $19,000. So in this Final Judgment the court added this award to the jury verdict. This Final Judgment says nothing about the moral rectitude of CG. We have no idea what was the basis of Graf's claims against CG. The most you can say is, you win some, you lose some. Next you find Graf filing a Notice of Lis Pendens in this same case. My construction of this document is that Graf has filed a request with the Broward County Court to satisfy his $78,000 December 1993 judgment, with an order that the Sheriff take possession of the three named cars and sell them at auction. The purpose of this document is to prevent CG from disposing of the cars prior to the Sheriff taking possession of them. The document also would put a lien in the chain of title of the three cars. Nothing nefarious about this either. In fact, unless CG was the record owner of the three cars, it would be Graf who was stretching the bounds of ethical litigation conduct, by seeking to tie up the property of third parties in CG's custody, in order to exert pressure on CG.
By the way, count me as a Max Vito fan. Although there is no doubt which side he's on, on the merits, at the same time its plain to see that 9/10ths of what he writes is "having a laugh," as they say in the London High Court. According to his profile, he's a retired engineer. Haven't you heard? Engineers know everything!
Reminds me of one of my favourite jokes: An engineer dies and reports to the Pearly Gates. Saint Peter checks his dossier and, not seeing his name there, accidentally sends him to Hell. It doesnt take long before the engineer becomes rather dissatisfied with the level of comfort in Hell. He soon begins to design and build improvements. Shortly thereafter, Hell has air conditioning, flush toilets and escalators. Needless to say, the engineer is a pretty popular guy. One day, God calls Satan and says with a sneer: So, how are things in Hell? Satan replies: Hey, things are going great. Weve got air conditioning, flush toilets, and escalators. And theres no telling what this engineer is going to come up with next. What! God exclaims: Youve got an engineer? Thats a mistake he should never have been sent to Hell send him to me. Not a chance, Satan replies: I like having an engineer on the staff, and Im keeping him! God insists: Send him back or Ill sue. Satan laughs uproariously and answers: Yeah, right. And where are you going to get a lawyer?
So, from this mouth diarrhea, I take it that you do not recognize the sovereignty of the state of Ohio to enforce its own laws? I love it when you suggest that scraps of paper are worthless. You do understand language, don't you? You understand that it matters not the quality of paper on which a contract is written--it only matters what the contract says. Do you realize there is a long-standing principle in law--recognized in England, Switzerland a and the EC, as well as the US, Australia, Canada and a host of other nations--and that principle is that a contract does not have to be written on paper at all--it can be written on a napkin, it can be engraved in metal. Hell, it can be written on a cow. But, as your posts show, you don't care about anything other than your colossal ego--which must be a form of over-compensation for shortcomings elsewhere.
Debbie Clark, please have a seat in the back of the bus.! You and your husband are fraudsters at the same level of your partners in crime, Joe Ford and Kristie Lawson. Had I been Bonhams, I would have seized your house trailer for screwing with their registered client. Waiving that Ford bogus title in Shelby Meyers face got Dave Clark loads of respect. You guys are California hustlers working the classic car world with your confidence games . Debbie, sleep with a dog and you get fleas. Kristie Lawson I do not know, but , coming from the gene pool at ole Karl the news looks grime. No wonder Tom Price scratched you off the list, as should all Ferrari collectors should. You can not be trusted as you spurt personal information on anyone you try to make a fee on. A Confidence woman running a tag team with ole Dave Clark of San Diego. What is this you said about Tom Price being involved with a replica GTO deal in Germany ? How is he involved in another replica scam ? Isnt he too ole for such risky stuff? Post some pictures please and lets be friends. PM me.
Oh so now Debbie Clark, Dave Clark, Kristie Lawson, Joe Ford and Tom Price are all involved in a scam? I dont know of Debbie and Dave but frankly calling Tom Price a scammer is outrageous, more likely Chris Gardner burned Tom Price and Tom is getting lawyered up. Hey I know if you are going to get sued for car dealing gone bad why not add slander and libel to the list, can they extradite from Switzerland or Monaco ?
Oh Timmmmmmmmmy boy ! Have you all those Dinky Cars lined up on your rented apartment window this morning ? Got a brown one like Jeff ? Oh, I mean Prugna... not purple but brownish pre-purple. Yep, Prugna means Prune. I call it a brown- Prune. I dont know Tom Price. According the the Court Document Tom Price is one of Joseph L. Ford III clients. The record says Ford is helping Tom on the history of his car collection. The Gardner link there was that Ford was using stolen documents to assist Tom Price. Thats all on record in the Ohio Fraud Case against Ford. Toms not on the Gardner witness list. Tom Price is a Ford witness. Ford stated in Court, in the Good Ole USA, that he is doing historical research on Tom Prices car collection. I am guessing some of the cars need title documentation as Ford has declared himself an expert before the in the USA on title law. You know, Ford is an expert legal mind with titles and a well known Ferrari expert. Hes also the person on the 375 Plus title, the same car that Bonhams had no authority to sell yep, that one. Albeit a fraudulent title, Fords name is still on the Ohio Document according to his post # 1493 . How does a resident of Florida get to be listed on an Ohio title without a false declaration to the State? The Ford witness defense list ( its on-line by the way ) includes car dealers Rob Meyers, Shelby Meyers joining Tom Price and a few other notable car collectors apparently now in the Dung bed with Ford. Seems Fords statements to the Court is the RM team is in business with Tom Price. So, as a witness for Joseph Fraud , Tom Price doesnt have to go through the expense of extraditing anyone . He can just make an appearance in the Ohio fraud case and explain his involvement with the fraudster Joseph L. Ford , easy peasy as we say . I questioned Debbie Clark, who seems to do business with Tom Price and knows many of his personal details, habits and ways of business. I questioned this GTO replica in Germany, and I asked in my posting directly to Debbie Clark about the story . If I knew more than the $63,000,000 asking price I would tell you. Mainly because, you know, on the F-Chat enquiring minds want to know, dont they ? I am attaching a photo of a younger Tom Price, standing next to a Ferrari with Mario Andretti. My oh My, I love this F-Chat , its like Im an actor in an Insidious soap opera. Suddenly I am famous. I needed a hobby, painting my Dinky Models brown, mean Prugna , gets boring.
In response to the Ocean Joe post #1512 : Post the Court Order that declares the Ohio title as defective or fraudulent. End it here and now -- either there is an Order or there is not According to this, it is fraudulent on your own admission. Perhaps I can suggest this 16 page read of Judge Martins findings on Joseph Ford without the tampered and altered excerpts. Please excuse the yellow highlighting (my copy), it should be read in its entirety. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks for the transcript. It somewhat contradicts OJ post and interestingly on page 14, contains the Judges personal opinion that the subsequent sale by Bonhams is likely to be enforced. There are always two sides to a story
Posting that was a niece piece of misinfomation, that was the transcript of the November 14 2013 session, which was not the end of the matter at all. In subsequent sessions - i.e, Jan 17 2014 transcript shows that the viewpoint of the judge evolved as the judge understood more about the case -"your client was not represented by Ford" Simple, clear and in black and white. Even the entitled European aristorcracy should be able to understand it
Chrikky needs to go to law school to learn the difference between a transcript and a court order. Wrxmike is correct, and further, a subsequent transcript supercedes and clarifies the first transcript. A few days ago a hearing was held in Ohio. Gardner's attorney admits that there has been NO ADJUDICATION of any lack of Ford or Lawson interest, nor has the Gardner interest been adjudicated, not even as a lienholder -- i.e. the Ohio title listing Ford and Lawson as owners, with no lien holder, is undisturbed. Ford's testimony as a whole, and not out of context, is that Gardner had a contingent lien, contingent on Gardner's performance as financier, which Gardner defaulted -- the Ohio title had no such ability to record a contingent lienholder -- some may call that a defect. Regardless, EACH of Gardner's attorneys (Haas and then Gottesman) approved of the Ohio title as it stands. IMHO once adjudicated, there will be no changes made. Also, I think the news will shortly show that the Buyer has sued Bonhams, Swaters, and Gardner for fraud and reckless misrepresentaion -- to rescind the sale -- in London. Lawson and Ford have sued Swaters and Gardner for fraud and civil conspiracy in Ohio claiming they misrepresented facts as to ownership and authority/ability to sell or convey title. There is also the highly suspect Zanotti caper the night before the auction, in which, according to Bonhams, Gardner and Swaters authorized Bonhams to pay $3,200,000 to a Sr. Zanotti as if Zanotti held a valid claim against the car. Total fraud IMHO. They still refuse to provide ANY Zanotti documentation. I wonder why . . . Below are a couple pages of the recent hearing - Gottesman admits there has been NO adjudication that lessens the Ford or Lawson interests as reflected on the Ohio title. My information is that news out of England and Europe is expected soon, about Bonhmas being sued to rescind the "sale" of the highest price ever paid at auction for a Ferrari due to fraudulent or reckless misrepresentations made by Bonhams. If any F Chat members are in the UK and see the news first, please post it. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I am losing track with the cases in Ohio. How many cases, with which judges, on what topics? Is anything with the Appellate Court currently? As for the Buyer at the auction. I have had professional dealings with him in the past (non-automotive). He has immense financial resources and has no problem deploying his considerable retained legal talent. If he has to attend some gathering he will be flying in on his BBJ. Jeff
All lies, you know Kristi and Ray, have met them in Ohio......Tom Price went to your house in Switzerland to look at the Pourtout (which we believe to be a phony Pourtout), you are being sued by him about the Talbot, Figoni-Falaschi Roadster that you claim you have the real one....(don't know anything about his GTO). Shelby came to us about Kristi's car and told us you were involved. We defended you by saying you were not, only to find out that you had been lying to us since 2010 and had been involved. Since that day that I confronted you with that information you kept from us, all the pieces started to come together. Now we are here on FC and you pretend to be Max Vito, who I honestly don't know. But Max feel free to tell CG that I have copied and saved all our conversations, a couple of years worth. Remember the one where you said, Jacques Swaters is rotting in hell? What about what you said about Florence. I played CG's game from that time on and learned from him to save and record all conversations between the two of us. Remember when we met in Las Vegas and you called me and asked me to repeat something I had said earlier to you? My response was, "why, are you recording this Chris?", from that moment on I knew you were only there because you were scheming to screw Kristi Kleve Lawson and wanted copies of our files. You know the transcript of the book written about this story you insisted we read, the one that exposes Mr. Swaters and Florence, how is it going to end? Will you now be exposed as the villain?
