348/355 vs McLaren 12C

Drove my friends Pantera. Similar to my 308 as far as drive sensation, but seemed wider and certainly gobs more torque. Imagine a 308 feeling more classic, like an early 70s car.

For perspective my 308 was an '84.

Only way for the OP to really determine a direction is to drive all cars being considered.

 

12C all week long and twice on sunday....are you kidding me.

Not sure why so many people jumped down the OP's throat.....I would tell anyone who worries about long term mechanical repair costs to take a modern car over a 355 and I love the 355, personally one of my all time fave Ferrari's. Of course I would have a late model F1 coupe, dump the factory exhaust system and register it in Nevada.. but that's just me..

The McLaren is by far the best engineered car in its price range available today.

 

......here's another one of those 355 owners. man we should have pics against all names. I wanna see how many of these 355 owners are women. They get soooo catty all the time.

Ha Ha oh thats gonna inspire some comments or two

 

..... ahh here's another one of the regulars with the claws out

 

Really, are you really debating a $250k car to a $50 to $60k car. Pretty pointless. People that can truly afford a $250k car don't sit around and think of a $50k alternative. They most likely just have a collection.

I wonder if people walk into Bentley looking at a Mulsanne and say, also looking at the Jetta Wolfsburg because I could just pay for that one with my down payment. Ughhhh.......face palm.

 

Spoken like a true person that apparently CAN'T afford a $250k car. Those of us who can don't just spend it cause we can. That's how we hold on to our money. When you can afford you don't always just do it cause you can - why? Two reasons:

1) you have nothing to prove
2) you've experienced everything else and are open to trying new things.

This is why I was even considered a Pantera. Its a hobby. Being made to achieve maximum smile when you open the garage and also when you drive and $50k are not mutually exclusive my man. It actually IS possible to enjoy something that is cheaper MORE! Sheesh, why is it that people with less $ always think the more you have ore spend the happier you will be. I'm just looking for the most fun irrespective of price.

 

I believe what some have raised an eyebrow at is flinching away from the servicing costs of a mostly depreciated 355, when you aren't deterred by the depreciation to come off a $200k MP4-12C. You'll spend more to acquire the McLaren and probably eat more on its depreciation the time you sell it than you would on the 355's maintenance. It makes financial apprehension over the Ferrari seem peculiar.

Furthermore, the completely different era, technological level, and character of the cars make them quite unusual to cross-shop. Most of the time, when someone cross shops two completely different cars, having not narrowed the choice down to one type of automotive experience, it has in the past tended to be schoolboys pretending to shop.

You said you are not quite out of grad school yet, however not many grad school students, regardless of age, could afford anything remotely like your stated options - even with financing. Most grad school graduates have slight different priorities upon completion of their education. Again, this is something about your introduction that stands out as an exception to the norm. As a recent recipient of a postgraduate degree, I know how punishing further education can be on the finances and the first thing to do is to repay student debts.

When there are a lot of unusual things happening all at the same time, it becomes cumulatively more difficult to dismiss all of them as just quirky. You can dismiss those of us "with less $" as out of touch with those in the big league if you wish, but I don't think it'll change observers' opinions of your thread.

I think a little scepticism from many observers is a natural reaction in the circumstances. While some will offer advice, others may just assume it's not a serious thread.

All the best,
Andrew.

Full disclosure:
I'm a 348 enthusiast, a recent graduate, horrendously poor, and heavily in debt following my PhD. I wouldn't care to comment on F1moving's finances, but perhaps I speak like a person who truly can't afford a $200k car because I truly can't afford a $200k car.

 

Above

Plus 1
You said it diplomatically

Evo is full of it.
Too many things do not add up.
I reckon school kid.

 

Neuro Beaker hit the nail on the head. Maybe I can just PM you in the future and you can type my responses! That was elegant and perfect! But I do like lotusk's delivery as well! So true.

 

Dont do it, you will regret it. As amazing as the 348 and 355 are, they are an old car now and spending that sort of money on a really good one is not going to satisfy you and im speaking from experience. If your going to spend that much then go for the latest model you can get, the technology and styling and driving experience you will get will be well worth the investment. The 348 and 355 feel old fashion to drive now, you will definitely know this after what you have owned and driven.

I personally dont like the sound of the Mclaren. I like Lambos but there slowly turning into Audis which is really dissapointing, why not a later model Ferrari? A F430 would be a better choice wouldnt it? A 991 Turbo S would also be a better choice and faster to thats for sure...

 

I went from a low mileage 99 f355 GTS 6 speed to a 2011 Porsche Twin Turbo 6 speed manual and could not be happier. I don't see what all the fuss is about with the 355. I drove a 430 6 speed manual, and that was a lot more fun, but the visibility sucks. Just my opinion.

 

Interesting. I had the exact opposite experience -- I sold my 2007 997TT w/ sport chrono pkg to get a 355 and couldn't be happier. The Porsche is extremely capable but kind of left me cold...Kind of like a Lexus w/ gobs of torque and the turbos muffled the exhaust sound. The 355 is not nearly as capable but I feel much more connected and driving on a twisty mountain road topless with the the shrieking exhaust is pure bliss. If I needed a daily driver I would choose the Porsche though.

For me, fun is driving a car close to the limit and new F cars, P cars, McLarens etc are phenomenal performers but you can't come even close to their limit unless you are on a track. Kind of like owning a trophy wife who only allows you a hug now and then

 

I wonder why when a F-chatter makes a question, sometimes he recives awful answers. I want to believe that this is a forum where car enthusiasts help each other like a brotherhood.

I think I know what Evoking means, it's not about the more money you can spend in a car, it's just what driving experience you prefer.

Every car has a diffrent caracter, and gives you diffrent feelings. When I drive my Honda S2000 I love how it handles, it's a high precission machine, reliable and a modern sport car that my wife loves. When I drive my 348, I feel like in a racing car. It's raw, loud, demanding, with no power steering, old school gear shift... I really love both, but every car in it's proper territory.

Maybe the best way to choose your car is to test drive all of them, until you find the driving experience you're looking for.

 

To those of you that gave objective feedback thank you! I drove a 95 355 a couple days ago. Was a black 6spd. Not my preferred color but it allowed me to get a feel for it as its been a while since I've driven one.

As much as I love the 355 it was clear that I probably wouldn't be satisfied with it or even with another of my beloved NSX for that matter. The XKR's speed, refinement and overall capability has re-calibrated my senses.

Today I drove an LP-560 EGear and that will be my choice. Initially I only wanted a 6spd LP-560. But with so few to choose from I decided to open my mind to Egear. After all I was considering paddles on McLaren right (although I had no choice on 12C and the performance is just stupid). The LP had great heavy and precise steering, the car felt milled from a single block and the sound was awesome even stock. And the pull was quite nice too ;-)

I'm sure in the future when I'm in a different state of mind I'll crave a pure older school Ferrari and will some day own a 355.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

P.S. For those of you suspicious ones or those still debating my authenticity - wow. And some of you had no business even looking at the thread anymore since you said I'm on ignore ;-). Neuro, your points actually take things a bit more into the legendary ridiculous Ferrari community social idiosyncrasies... It may sound polished but the very fact that you went into all of that reminds me of the analogy of putting of lipstick on a pig - somewhat the same snobbery cloaked in a more eloquent and less directly antagonistic approach topped off with a dash of continued cynicism. Why all this questioning how someone has the money while in Grad school etc. Who cares. I could be a 25yr old with a rich dad. But again, who cares. I did say I'm a 37yr old professional a long time ago. Also, this is a Ferrari board isn't it. You of all people should know people come into means all sorts of ways and different times in life.

That being said, I will say it does make those other "real car guys" that didn't flinch at all about my questions and completely got it all the more refreshing. For the record, below are some pics of my past toys.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/291976/2007-bmw-m/photo-gallery/

Notice the diversity of this small sampling of the cars I've owned - and during the same period not really over progression of income. To authenticate its me feel free to do a Google search of Evoking and pick any one of these cars and you'll see other forum posts by me - Evoking. I really am a truly diverse car guy that loves all types for different reasons. Apparently genuine unbiased car guys that can be made to smile owning completely different types of cars don't fit here sniff-sniff LOL.

So just to educate you ignorant troll detectives so you can be nicer to guests to your community in the future I will shed some light into what makes a car guy like me tick. Btw, you apparently have others like me here as well - some of them commented - cool dudes. So for example I loved the torque of the Viper but missed the precision of NSX. Lots of Viper Vette guys wouldn't dream of owning a torque-less NSX and and vice versa. But I'm much more open and I've had a blast being so. I Loved the torque of Z3 M Roady/Coupe but missed sharper steering and bolt rifle gearbox in the S2000. Evo was a hoot; and who didn't love the original 300Z TT. Oh and notice the one pic with 944 Turbo ($8k car) next what??? A 993 and an NSX. Why would anyone own much less compare owning a 944T to such nice machinery as 993 and NSX. "Nobody would do that" is what you Troll-detecting Ferrari snobs wold say (Not all of you - but the guilty folks know who they are).

Next time, try and remember you don't get paid any more for sniffing out a troll... and be nicer to visitors. Its just a car hobby. All in fun fellas!

 

..........You know why he answered so wisely and diplomatically.... cause he doesn't own a 355....BBaaahahaha ohhhh I shouldn't poke the beast I know I'm sorry but I just had a look at your profile Neurobeaker and couldn't help myself... sorry

 

I can completely understand where the OP is coming from, because I've been in his shoes for the past year. Not to boast (that's not my point), but I can easily afford a $200k or $300k car (and have permission from the wife, which may be more important that actually having the money!). But the 355 was a "special" car to me. It was THE Ferrari that made me love Ferrari. And, like the OP, I also had the same thought - just because you can afford it, doesn't mean you NEED to afford it. So if a 355 would scratch my sports car itch, why spend 3 times as much for equal satisfaction?

Ironically, I just posted a thread here before I read this one - I pulled the trigger and bought a new R8 V10. Like the OP, the 355's maintenance scared me away to some degree. But it wasn't the financial aspects of that maintenance - it was the downtime. I realized that I wanted this car to be about driving pleasure... not tinkering or shop time. I also wanted the car to be something I could drive 4 or 5 hours from home whenever the moment struck. So maintenance fears for me weren't financial - they were fears of disappointment and interruption of a trip... stranded by the side of the road 3 states from home.

I don't think it's odd in the least that someone is cross shopping a 12C with a 355. I cross shopped the 355, 458, R8, 12C, Vantage, and a multitude of cars. Some people may just buy the most expensive car they can afford - and maybe that's why they won't understand shopping across such a broad price spectrum. But for me, it was about shopping for the car that was going to tick the right boxes - and price was secondary. I bought neither the least expensive nor the most expensive on my list but rather the car I felt would give me the right balance of performance, smiles, usability, and maintenance I was after.

Now, I think I'll likely still come back for the 355... it's just special to me... but for now the 2-seater mid-engine box has been ticked.

To the OP, my advice would be to really build a list of what's important and start ranking the cars in each category. The 12C is just a fantastic car. There's a few around my neighborhood, and I do drool a bit each time I see them. I ultimately felt less emotional about the 12C, though, even though on paper it did everything right. The 355 is visceral to drive, even if much slower. However, as a tech guy, the 355 certainly falls well behind any modern equivalent for me there. As I said, I ultimately chose a modern car because usability and less maintenance ranked very high on my priority list.

 

No disrespect but why were you sweating a sub $70k 355? I seem to recall you passing on a very nice car for mid 60's... At that time you were trying "to get a better price"
Hey, we all want a good deal but if you can easily afford $300k, passing on a car you really wanted for less than $5k does not seem to align.

 

That is an impressive collection (the bike notwithstanding)

 

It's not often the guy who can't afford any Ferrari at all gets labeled as a Ferrari snob - I've moved into new realms of achievement!

I feel I should clarify that my comments were to explain some of the scepticism simply as a member, not in any capacity as a moderator. As for payments, moderating is an unpaid volunteer role. As I said earlier, people queried your story because you are very much an exception to the norm - it is highly unusual for a finishing postgraduate student to be in a position to be buying an exotic either independently, with financing, or with family money. If you think graduating students shopping for classic Ferraris, modern Lamborghini's, and almost new McLarens is normal rather than special then you and I are pretty far apart with our life experiences to date.

Anyway, it appears there are folks on your wavelength so I'll spare you my legendary ridiculousness and leave you guys to it. Take care.

Alas, no Ferrari yet, my profile is just the wish-list. A 1989-1992 348tb is my dream car and I'll buy one as soon as i can afford an exotic because it is quintessentially what I love about Ferrari.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

just ignore all the *******s Evo, there just really jealous and have nothing else to do with there day, all forums have them and sadly they are the highest proportion. The fact you have that much money to spend and they dont really annoys them so they take it out on you to make themselves feel better, lol, you kind have to laugh at them really, it really is quite childish but thats the way the world is unfortunately

Lambo, good choice, if im honest Lambo is on my list aswell

 

Having owned at a young age many differant 'supercars' to use an old school term, from Astons to Lambos to Lotus and Ferrari something I have now learned is, the trouble with really really fast cars is that it's all over way too quickly, one quick squirt on the gas and you are into jail time.
The great thing about the older supercar is that it takes longer to get there and with much more drama than the new cars, so you get more thrills but with half the speed.
I've driven the Mclaren and unless you are doing 150+ you are not really having fun, it's just too easy.
Now do 100mphin a 355 or a Countach or other 90s/80s cars and wow you really feel the speed and the thrill, yes they are less perfect but they do excite more than the new stuff.
This is the feedback I tend to get from people I take out for joyrides, most of them come back more excited by the old stuff than in the new and would swear that the old stuff is actually faster.
I suppose in summary, if You are a bit of a petrolhead, love the thrill of driving but want to stay out of jail, the older stuff ie 355 is just fab!
BUT if You don't get the blue light paranoia and are happy doing 150mph+ then the new Mclaren is the tool for the job.
There is only one exception to this though....the old 1990s Mclaren F1, I've driven 2 now, absolutely bloody mental at any speed!!

 

Its the agression feeling that the older cars have around town that make the newer cars dont feel the same (without mods)

Jail time, lol, yeh thats true but your heading to jail jquicker in the older cars as there 0-60mph is what they do best, its after that where they start to tire unlike the modern cars which are very fast and dont get tired. The older cars are always louder aswell which makes you put your foot down even more then in a modern car. In an older car your jail cell awaits you just driving down the road to get dinner

 

My point exactly. It's driving closer to the car's limit that provides the thrill.

As to Ferrari 930's comment that older cars put you in jail quicker because "0-60 is what they do best", that's a real head scratcher. Modern super cars routinely do it in about 3 seconds whereas my 355 does it in 4.7 on a good day. Where the older cars like the 308 to 355 vintages really shine is at speed on a windy road. A 0-60 drag race? Not so much...

 

Andrew, you didn't need to clarify yourself in the slightest IMHO. A poster with completely disparate car choices comes onto this board asking for advice i.e. should I buy a Honda Civic or a New BMW M4.. You were expressing what many of us were thinking. Try googling "$30,000 millionaire"..

Oh, and please don't put an MBA in the same level as "Postgraduate" degree. Any degree you can get online doesn't deserve that title... especially second and third tier schools.

BTW if I had a 348 I was selling.. you'd be the first guy I'd sell it to.. even if I took a significant loss.