Fabspeed parts made in Taiwan?

The 360 headers are clearly different. Look where the pipes come into the collector. It is VERY different and the collector is even a different shape.

The 430 headers look much closer but are still different. You can display the pictures in a lot more detail on those links. The AP header the pipes coming into the collector are smaller than the collector entry point and the the gap is filleted in during the weld. They look pretty good but still a clear difference in size so probably a socket weld.

The FS headers the pipes and the collector are almost exactly the same size and the collector is subtly different too. The joint is probably a butt weld like the 360 header.

 

Seems the only thing coming out of this post is that Fabspeed is shady about where they get their components sourced from. Even if they did make a great product. The fact they are not straight forward is going to deter people from purchasing from them.

 

Hold on, there is a claim but no one has provided proof that the product doesn't meet the made in USA specification. The claim is that they are made by the same vendor as others and falsely labeled. The pictures shows that they aren't the same and Fabspeed has provided some information (granted, not an itemized list). I don't believe that an itemized list is required.

I think the burden or proof falls on the person making the claim that it isn't made in the USA. I believe that the person making the claim has the burden because anything less falls in the category of libel.

 

My take on it is this. I believe FS has done some great work developing their products and I understand parts being sourced from around the globe to which there is a scale of efficiencies and economies to such business practices. My question is: Is every set of headers made by FS built on US soil? Or is JIM building these to completion as per FS spec and then shipping them to the US for final Q&A, packaging, etc..?

 

I don't even know why I'm jumping into this.

By law, the burden lies with the "manufacturer" who uses the "made in USA" label. If requested, he has to provide a content statement that provides materials and content of U.S. made goods to the FTC.

If, for instance, the steel used is made in China, then POOF, there goes made in USA out the window. If all of the assembly is done in the USA, then the proper label is "Assembled in the USA" not "MADE in the USA".

Content rules are pretty clear as well.

Complying with the Made in USA Standard | BCP Business Center

The FTC enforces this when they get a complaint.

I'm gonna dig through the Fabspeed website, but I DO NOT see a specific claim that their product is "Made in USA." The do reference the German cats, and their 30,000 SF manufacturing facility, but do not seem to claim 100% made in America.

Now I'm gonna read their long post and see if they make that claim there, then edit this post.

OK, here's the pertinent part from their post:

this is quite clearly an assembled in USA remark.

D

 

I know, I got sucked in myself. To your point, they have to provide the data to the FTC if requested. It doesn't say that they have to post full details to anyone who asks. I agree that Chinese steel would be a deal breaker. Is a flange a major component? That would require interpretation by the FTC; I really don't know.

My point was to the poster that said "Seems the only thing coming out of this post is that Fabspeed is shady about where they get their components sourced from." There are claims that these are made in Taiwan but no one has provided any evidence. If the person making the claim had any proof I am sure it would have come out by now. That leaves me with only one conclusion, they don't have any proof and as such are speculating. I didn't draw any conclusion about the voracity of the made in USA claim.

 

ummm...have you read the first page(s) of this thread recently? Posts 8 and 13 and many others might change your opinion/statement above...

 

Pesky evidence, what difference does it make anyway.

 

There are just simply some opinions that cannot be swayed. I would personally be willing to stand in front of a camera and give a short guided tour of our facility. And you all should know, that I hate being on camera.

 

As I have said many times over the years I have bought many Fabspeed parts for my 911 & Ferraris but strangely have none of them now, the Capristo stuff is still great though. Most laughable is the Fabspeed Cats for a Scuderia. Check engine light shortly afterwards, for which Fabspeed sells you some Oxygen spacers with a ridiculous 90 degree design which means you can't fit them without removing the cats again as they don't clear the gearbox. Hmm very well thought out guys, it doesn't matter where it is made unfortunately ....

 

Evan.

I think it would be much simpler to state facts and answer two questions that would put this to rest permanently.

1. Do you MANUFACTURE these parts in the USA in a way that meets the FTC standard for a "Made in USA" label? Are the components US sourced?

2. Do you claim your products are "made in USA" or simply "assembled in USA" in your packaging, advertising and correspondence? Or do you use some other language?

Answer these and put the whole thing to rest.

Don't answer them, and the speculation here will continue until we're all dead and buried.

Dave

 

We do offer 2 piece O2 oxygen sensor extenders for customers who already have the cats installed. Second, you cannot get any better cats than the ones that we use. There are currently no better 200 Cell cat than the HJS German imported Tri-metallic core directional cat that we use. I have not had any complaints regarding CEL on 430 Scud, 458, GT2 etc. all of which use the same cat cores.
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YES Fabspeed manufactures performance parts in the USA. Fabspeed has an extensive and vast range of products that we manufacture in house for Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Bentley, Maserati, BMW and Mercedes.

As has been mentioned previously, Fabspeed has ISO 9001 certified suppliers to which we partner with to source certain unique flanges, investment castings, catalytic converters, carbon fiber, gaskets, hardware, air filters and other Fabspeed components. This is the norm for all companies. Even Antonio Capristo personally replied and mentioned on Ferrari Chat that his company Capristo in Germany sources investment castings, flanges, stampings and various parts from quality suppliers overseas. Fabspeed only uses HJS German imported catalytic converters in our exhaust systems so I can not quite understand Richard CH's complaints. Fabspeed is the worlds second largest purchaser of HJS German catalytic converters after Miltek Sport UK.

I am not being evasive and we have invited any and all of you over for a Fabspeed factory tour. We have posted BUILD videos proving we are using USA stainless steel and quality materials and components in our manufacturing plant. No one product itself sets the standard for the entire company. We are not ashamed of the fact that we use quality, proven and tested components from global supplies. Any product that bears the Fabspeed Motorsport brand name has been thoroughly street, track and Dyno tested and Quality Control evaluated. Over the years we have had many Ferrari club, Porsche club and car clubs events in our facility along with writers from magazines like Forza, Excellence, Panorama , European car. The guests and writers have seen everything.

Evan

 

So you're saying fabspeed manufacturers ALL parts in the USA? Some? Most? Doesn't seem clear to me.

 

Evan, have you read the FTC definition of "Made in the USA"? [I sure hope so. I can say if I was rep'ing a product that made that claim - let alone if *I* was making the claim in my efforts as a employee or reporesentative - I would want to fully understand and verify the veracity of such claims]


Seriously, read this: http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

From the FTC site: Example: A table lamp is assembled in the U.S. from American-made brass, an American-made Tiffany-style lampshade, and an imported base. The base accounts for a small percent of the total cost of making the lamp. An unqualified Made in USA claim is deceptive for two reasons: The base is not far enough removed in the manufacturing process from the finished product to be of little consequence and it is a significant part of the final product.

Do you understand/agree that the definition requires "no or negligible" content to be foreign sourced?

Do your 360 and 430 headers contain no or negligible foreign-sourced materials?

Why has your firm never listed the components and sources for these headers? (its been asked for years)
For example, where does your raw T304L stainless steel used for the tubes come from?

THAT would be non evasive. Any disinterested third party (non customer, non prospect, non Fabspeed) observer would likely find the whole of your firm's responses in this multi-year thread to be at minimum "evolving" and at worst "evasive or misleading".

Using the verb "manufactured" in the USA rather than "Made" in the USA will not prove helpful in front of an FTC inquiry I would bet...

These questions have been asked and not directly answered by your firm for years. Go read the first few pages of this thread and the linked threads. There were times when your firm did say they are made in the USA. There are other times when your firm has said "some" components are sourced overseas. There were times where *it sounded* like your firm was saying you "had the capability" to make all the headers, but didn't do that because you couldn't keep up with demand [without sourcing headers elsewhere].

Example from today above:

"We are not ashamed of the fact that we use quality, proven and tested components from global supplies."

But, here is a link to where a Fabspeed representative said "Made in the USA":

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/california-nevada-southern-sponsored-fast-cars-ltd/323756-installing-fabspeed-headers.html

Here is the quote if you don't want to click on the link:

Hello all,

Fabspeed products are made in the USA. More specifically, right outside Philadelphia. Thanks!

Jeff
[email protected]

And another:

None of our products are sourced from China. The only item we use that is not from USA are the raw catalytic converters... they come from Germany then are fabricated here. Below is a picture from a recent open house.

Jeff
[email protected]

Well, I guess I stand corrected. Jeff said "none" other than the German cats comes from outside the USA. Its just that later you guys have said that is not the case. So I have no idea what to believe. Anyways. You can continue to run your business as you deem fit...and come off as your firm has and continues to...its your choice. But don't get indignant and say others' cannot be swayed of their opinion and that your firm has been clear and forthright...that simply sounds silly.

BTW - I don't care if the products are made in timbuktoo...there are enough in service for the quality to speak for itself at this point. I do mind potentially misleading (or outright misleading) marketing by a sponsor to us members...and others' make the argument that your mark-ups reflect a "Made in the USA" premium that they believe is not justified (or even meeting the legal/regulatory requirements). I am less interested in that since I won't be a customer for your products fwiw.

 

Guys.

I surrender.

If any component of what they "make" is manufactured overseas, then the "Made in USA" label may not be applied.

He uses "globally manufactured parts" in their product. That means quite simply that this is not a product Made in USA. That doesn't mean they're shabby, or underspec, or in any way faulty, it just means they are not Made in USA.

Not a knock on the product in any way. Hell, most of what we buy is no longer Made in USA, that's not in and of itself a bad thing, it only becomes one IF the product is falsely advertised as Made in USA when it is not.

The hedging seems to make it clear that "assembled in USA" applies here.

It would just be easier if Fabspeed answered the questions directly, but clearly, they seem unwilling to do so.

D

 

Its not even obvious to me - after reading the regulations and interpretation on the FTC website - that their products would meet that definition. Its an interesting question, but from the examples, together with what we "know" and "don't know" about content and assembly, the answer is not 100% clear imho.

I have looked on a bit of the FS website and didn't see any claims of either "Made" or "Assembled" in the USA. I have no idea if they use those claims anywhere in their official marketing now or in the past. I do know - and posted the links above - that they have used them when marketing to THIS FORUM in the past.

 

Last post - for now.

Coming at this from the other perspective. A good quality header, to me, would be hand welded in the US of US stainless steel. Could the cast components be sourced overseas? Sure. Like I said above - and frankly this thread has never/rarely been about - the quality is what it is and they have many headers installed in the marketplace. I think they should just say what the components are, where the materials are from and which assembly/fabrication work they do. But...they have swerved and darted on this for years. Maybe now they will be clear...

 

I think if you bought one of Jims headers and put it next to a FS header this would put everything to bed as the proof is in the pudding.

 

No - the proof of the pudding is even easier. If you email JIM and ask them to sell you their headers as a retail customer in the USA or Europe then you will be contacted by Fabspeed saying they have exclusive distribution rights for JIM headers in those territories.

I can categorically say that this happened to me - I will try and dig the email from Fabspeed out.

 

Hi Aldous this is correct. I just wanted to buy a couple of sets and here is the email they sent me 2 years ago stating I could only sell in Australia and NOT the US as their customers in the US were selling the similar ones ( quote ):


Dear Gary,

Glad to hear that you have much interest of our F360 parts, would you ever have a visit in Taiwan? What kind of dyno chart or testing machine in your company?

How much budget would you try to buy from Jim? We wish you have USD35,000 on hand to do the business with us. For Ferrari F360, we wish you have a yearly buy 30 sets or up the quantity and only can be sold in Australia market. Because some customer in USA have the similar ones for sales promotion.

We wish to make long term business relationship with you in the very near future, how about we have a visit with you or you have a time to see our factory recently.

Best Regards

Nora Hung

 

Seeing I have fabspeed headers now. I can tell you I do love the sound. If they are Taiwanese steel, I'd be really concerned about them being cheap and cracking. With the misdirecting statements that Evan has made, make me question the integrity of the company and it's officers. It seems when some vendors are caught with their pants down, they like to avoid the actual presented question to them and answer in some long winded form that has nothing to do with the simple yes or no answer.

If Fabspeed came out and fessed up to mislabeling their products, I think people would still have a little faith in them. But seeing how the continue dance around the question. It just give us all room to speculate.

 

Part of the problem is that Fabspeed has products for several makes and models. They don't all come out of the same mold or factory. Parts are not all the same. So it could be a yes/no/yes/sometimes answer.

 

Glad to see you have now split your previously very stupid O2 sensors design into a 2 piece set, but not sure why Fabspeed should need an O2 spacer anyway, my Capristo 200 cell Cats never triggered a CEL

 

Makes you wonder why they have to dance around that. Just constant deflection and avoidance of full disclosure.