375+ # 0384

Ford the Fraudster

You just can not believe anything OJ says, it’s all half the story, half the documents, half lies peppered with ford lies. Kleve got $45,000 in compensation from the FBI, it’s on record. There was NO title prior to 1993, it’s on record. Kruch got a total release from the Police and from the High Court in Belguim before he sold it to Swaters, all on record. There was NO use of the 0394AM number on any import or registration document – there NOTHING on record.
Just have to think OJ is about to enter the White Bronco and drive across LA . In a few years, he’ll be popped in a hotel room in Vegas for representing Debbie Clark Case No: ACE55501 of San Diego in another parole violation charge – without a license to practice law.

View Case Detail

 

Very interesting post. You appear to be closely connected and support Chris Gardner who used to post as Metalfinder. Anyone interested can read page 1 thru about page 30 of this thread to see that Chris was adamant that the car WAS stolen from Karl Kleve, renumbered #0394AM and that Swaters was the criminal along with Kruch. I seem to recall Mr. Gardner was supported by Alan Markelson (OldRacer) in his opinion of the terrible theft that had occured.

Specifically, post 24 by metalfinder, "KK received no money", "#0384Am had been concealed as #0394AM" OR post 36 that asks what about a US citizens rights. But hey there are dozens of posts just like those two. Please do read them.

And now Max, you are totally contradicting Chris Gardners posts and claims, are you saying that Chris Gardner is a liar?

 

So if it's all neat and tidy, why is the buyer is "not driving the car around" and enjoying his purchase, and is instead taking action in the UK ?
Why hasn't the buyer shipped it back to the US to add to his collection?
Why are the majority of funds are still being held in escrow ?

The increasingly strident complaints lead me to conclude that the buyer and the europeans are now "up to speed" and have started to tighten the correct screws....

Shouldn't bother you though Max, as you're not involved.

 

There is no doubt in this thread who runs the Swater’s bad-man campaign. Ford clearly did all the legal preparation , as a lawyer does, of the entire defense Lawson ‘s fraud allegations with a particular slant of the aggrieved American Hero, nuclear scientist, struggling working mom of two children and Ford - the White Knight, last Boy Scout, savior, holy spirit and the I'm not the kinda guy you cheat, in a contract, or in a court. Something is strange to me on that . Makes me want to shower.

This thread is just entertainment now. Good guy / bad guy. Indigents/ Rich guys. Greed / Fair .

Any statements at any particular time are based on the information at the time, and how Ocean Joe portrayed it – to this thread or to Gardner. If Ocean Joe convinced you of anything, it was with his own portrayal of the facts with the use of omitted facts, re-arranged facts or facts portrayed through his rose coloured glasses. I am not relying on Gardner’s view point on this from years ago. It’s clear that no one ever knew all the facts that keep coming in changing the assumed .

I don’t think this thread is about Gardner’s opinions, it’s about Ford’s opinions. Ford rocks this thread clearly. He is the mastermind. I just think he’s a fake, and don’t believe him as he defies creditability in his role here.

Just seems to me , in my 6 plus decades of life, that the truth rings like a bell. A bell that people recognize easily.

 

Yes you can make property unstolen. You can compensate a loss by thief by paying the aggrieved party and making them whole. That is want has been done in this Ferrari case. If something shows up stolen, you can buy it legally and settle the score with the party it was stolen. Then settle with the possessor of the property accordingly. Kristie Lawson had certain stolen ‘’rights’’ that she imagined she owned. Law Enforcement didn’t see it that way, so no action was ever done to recover her stolen loss or to even re-list the parts as stolen. So the Swaters action for fraud against Lawson was met with a defense action and a counter claim by Lawson. That was paid for in cash and legal bills by Gardner to Lawson’s credit in exchange for 100% of Kristie Lawson rights. Ford was Gardner’s attorney managing this deal, along with a dozen others for Gardner. His role will be identified later in the High Court of London where he has no wiggle room for his court room antics that have confused most people reading this.

Kristie Lawson decided to sell 100% of her interest taking the Gardner deal for lawsuit financing and cash payments. The Stolen Parts where ‘’un-stolen’’ when the Kleve Klan got paid for them and Gardner’s rights purchased where combined with a settlement with Florence Swaters - thus settling the 0384 AM fiasco..

Gardner, in protecting his Lawson purchase of the entire Kleve ‘’package’’ decided a settlement looked better than 20 years of ligation. Ford, a master of prolonging litigate saw the end result a different way – that was take the entire car away from Swaters. So, Ford entered this thread to make his case – which he continues to this day. In addition, the Ford Theory on recovery had fatal and impossible odds of success. Gardner decided to met Florence Swaters and hammer out a total settlement – Lawson signed on to that deal also. CG did that, successfully and in the interest of everyone that signed the HOA –which was all parties to the ‘’Ferrari’’. Ford’s role would change later, as his agenda merged clearer later in 2013.

Once the signing ( HOA) took place in March 2013, Ford started his campaign to kill the deal. He selected Gardner clients from the Gardner files he had stolen at the time of the Ferrari purchase. He constructed false affidavits, filed them in his pleading and managed an array of schemes to blast Gardner from the creditability of the transaction. That’s fairly clear in my review of this thread, but I am biased. Once those fires were set, Ford reeled in collectors, elderly GTO owners, auction companies and most of all - Madame Kristie-Kleve-Lawson.

If Gardner could be knocked out of the deal – Ford and Lawson could finally have a happy ending together. So, like Jim Jones in Ghana – Lawson drunk from his cup.

On the dismissal of the Swaters/Lawson case in July 2013, Gardner emerged to enforce his rights. It was at that time that Ford was called out by Thor Gottesman for practicing law for Gardner with no license – and not just on the Ferrari deal , but on a dozen other high level Gardner businesses. As soon as Ford was caught out his only option was to delay the surrender of the parts to Bonhams and force a missing of the September 2013 sales date which would be the start of his campaign to kill the Swater-Gardner-Kleve deal.

I tried to not so vile this morning, excuse me !

 

We are forgetting the reason for the Court Order in the first place.

The Heads of Agreement was signed in March 2013 and Ford/Lawson did not perform until the Court Order was obtained giving them seven days to send over the parts. With this in mind, it is hardly surprising that the Judge required a POA to tidy up any lose ends rather then see further excuses for delay.

The big surprise to me is why the Ohio contingent were not celebrating a deal that gave them 50% of the proceeds of a completed car instead of a possible 100% of a wreck. Clearly they felt they were entitled to more and Max Vito has given his opinion on this. IMHO the Belgium Contingent have been more than fair and if it was my car, I would be driving it around Europe, avoiding Ohio, with a T Shirt proclaiming "They had their chance and blew it"

 

There are too many onion layers in this mess for contributors to an internet message board to unpeel from the sidelines. (Unless of course your name is Max Vito.) But it is self-evident that the reason for Lawson and Ford to challenge the validity of the June 28 Bonhams sale is that they have concluded that they can net more than one-half of the $18M hammer price if they continue to litigate.

I think it is also self-evident that Lawson and Ford intend to focus on the scope of the agency that they gave to Bonhams under the HoA, that "Bonhams is appointed the world-wide exclusive agent of BC and of the OC Parties to sell the Car by public auction at no reserve at the Goodwood Revival in September 2013." There is no possible construction of this provision other than that Bonhams' agency terminated at the conclusion of the September 2013 Goodwood Revival, sale or no sale. The HoA gives no other agency to Bonhams. The language of the POAs that Judge Nadel ordered Lawson and Ford to execute may be amenable to a construction whereby Bonhams' agency to sell the car extended beyond September 2013. I don't know. But we do know now -- and are safe to assume that Bonhams knows -- that as of May 28 the Ohio courts consider these POAs to have been void ab initio, because Judge Nadel had no jurisdiction to order Lawson and Ford to execute them.

It may be the case that the conduct of Lawson and Ford, between the signing of the HoA in March 2013 and the Goodwood Revival in September 2013, constituted a breach of the HoA. But the remedy for that breach is to file a complaint in the London High Court, seeking legal relief (money damages) and/or equitable relief (injunctions, orders of specific performance, orders of reformation of the contract). Bonhams did not file such an action but instead resorted to self-help.

In fact I wonder if Bonhams even considered the HoA to continue to be in effect after September 2013. It would be interesting to know if Bonhams has tendered the "50% to OC," as provided by the HoA. In the absence of that provision of the HoA, Bonhams may consider Swaters to be the sole consignor, and the sole claimant to the proceeds.

In any event, whether Ford and Lawson get 100% of nothing is still very much an open question.

 

That is good advice. Let me also add, whenever someone makes a claim, always ask the simple, direct question: "What Evidence Do You Have of That?" And follow that up by demanding the evidence be posted. It helps too if that "someone" is a witness with first hand personal knowledge, as opposed to some newcomer.

So when a Max Vito claims Karl Kleve received $45,000, just ask him to post the evidence and you will see that he is, IMHO, a liar with an agenda.

As to the shipping of the parts in accord with the HOA, there was a 2010.04.23 Status Quo Order in effect (F. Chat p.81 Post 1596) that prevented any movement of parts or documents. On April 9, 2013, I was ready to crate and ship once we lifted the 2010.04.23 Status Quo Order (see below 2013.04.09 Haas to Maclean email).

Gardner's attorney Herbert J. Haas prepared a 2013.04.18 Proposed Order to Lift the Status Quo, Lift the Restraining Order, and Stay the Ohio Litigation pending distribution of funds (Haas virtually quotes the HOA). That proposed order contains a copy of the current Ohio title listing Ford and Lawson as Owners, with no lien holder. That proposed order also contains a current Ohio BMV printout of Ohio title history. That proposed order, prepared by Gardner's attorney, also refers to Gardner as Ford's "financier" and contained a copy of the 2011.01.31 Ford-Gardner Financing Agreement -- remember the prior 2012.06.04 Haas to Lawson email that also defined Gardner's role as the "financier" (p.64 Post #1267). Getting that proposed order signed by Swaters was necessary-- it would make it legally permissible to ship parts and documents. Herb Haas is also my and Lawson's attorney, and we all, including Gardner, agreed on that proposed Haas 2014.04.18 Lift-Lift-Stay Order, with the Ohio title and with the description of Gardner as "financier."

At first, Swaters agreed with the Haas 2014.04.18 Proposed Lift-Lift-Stay Order, then on May 20, 2013 Swaters changed her position, and demanded that all Ohio litigation be dismissed, as opposed to stayed.

If you read the HOA, there is no provision to "dismiss" prior to distribution of funds. Thus, Swaters' demands to "dismiss" are unjustified and she is in first material breach of the HOA. (p.80 Post #1587, #1588) -- I suggest all to Google the doctrine of first material breach.

Next, Bonhams prevents all communication between Swaters and Ford/Lawson in its email to Herb Haas -- Anthony Maclean writes, "Please note that Florence should in no circumstance be contacted direct by any Ohio parties" (see below). Thus, Bonhams is in material breach of the HOA para. 9's "full disclosure" provision and para. 4's "work closely together" provision.

Note too in that same email thread (see below) that on 2014.04.04 Florence Swaters confirms the stay then dismiss langauge of the HOA she signed a few days earlier -- "I confirm that I have and had full authority to enter and perform the Heads Of Agreement and to stay and discontinue all litigation in Ohio relating to the Car."

Next, Gardner changes his position and takes sides with Swaters demanding the dismissal prior to distribution, so now Gardner too is in material breach.

Thus, on 2013.07.29 I put Bonhams in breach of the HOA (p.64 Post #1268) and on 2013.09.24 I withdraw my HOA POA (p.52 Post #1025). On 2014.02.18 Lawson withdraws her HOA POA in an abundance of caution.

I hope this helps all understand "who, what, where, when, and why." Evidence is what matters.

And again, when someone makes a claim, always ask "What evidence do you have of that?"

Joe

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F. Swaters performed in a Jacques Swaters tradition – straight and correct , generous and in the old school tradition. Lawson and Ford cheated until the end – contributing nothing but an omen over the deal and hurting the cars value up until his latest postings. Snakes in bed together now , Ford, a master at shell games and impecunious his entire life played the ‘’in my fathers honor’’ both for Kristie and against Florence. That bell that many heard and bought into has now a dull ring and on both deceased men , an overwhelming untruth now.

Karl Kleve goes down in flames as not just a fruitcake, but a a greedy hoarder burying the Swaters money and forgetting where he put it - not more. As I said before, Kleve deserved to have the car taken from him by two American thieves. It was just another American opportunity, no different than Kristie Lawson’s theft of Gardner’s money. It’s called the Kleve Universe talking, with Ford at the helm.

Karl left behind the Kleve weirdo legacy and slum properties for his daughter Kristie Kleve Lawson and she gets the deserved - a riddling with fraud lawsuits against her. She followed her Pauper Partner Ford (PPF) for part of the crime, instead of taking her due and stepping aside for Gardner to spank Ford into oblivion. You can’t change the DNA of people, for love or money.

CG should have bought the Plus from Swaters long ago instead of his Monza – the Plus would have been a better deal and I would have bought the T- shirts for the Revival 2014.

 

Max - if Ford is this horrible person (and I'm no great fan btw) why then did Gardner rely on his services for such a long time? Are we to believe that Chris, who I hear also lacks a stellar reputation, was simply conned by Joe all those years?

>8^)
ER

 

Don't cut Mario Andretti out of the picture Max.....baby....sweet cheeks.

He won't like it.

 

Everyone here KNOWS who I am, and they can see that picture in my profile.

You are a loser, buddy.

No matter WHAT is your garage, you are a sad person.
Bye!

 

There ya go.......

Mods will address it shortly....or longly.

 

blackmail is actually one word..

for an engineer he is REALLY poor on details, he must specialize in Malaysian ferries, or something similar.

 

Yes, Sir...firmly attached, where Enzo told them to put it.....

 

Max blathers...

 

Ford is not horrible, he’s just Amoral. It takes time for that part to soak in. Gardner called on the devil he knew during his cancer ordeal, Ford checked Gardner into the hospital and engaged in a dozen business issues for Gardner – the Ferrari Purchase was just one. Ford prepared a series of POAs . He figured CG was a goner and over stepped his role as a Lawyer at the precise time. Prior to the Ferrari buy, Ford did no deals on his own feet for himself. There were never prior partnerships with CG and Ford , and Ford had no bank account and no money. Ford had zero experience in Ferrari’s, and no idea what a Plus was.

With Gardner in the hospital, Ford looted Gardner’s hard drives and files. Judge Martin caught that . Some of that he’s even posted. It’s nothing new in the world of lawyers and their weaker clients, clients that don’t hear the legal tongue of Ford while he’s wearing his Lawyer Hat.

Ford learned all he knew from his father’s problems in business that he sorted as the complaints rolled in. Living at home with his mother for most of his adult life gave him plenty of time to pretend what he wanted to do when he grew up, at age 40 that started to gel into wanting to be Chris Gardner.

I asked myself, where did it go wrong with Ford –Gardner ? Likely it went pear shaped when Gardner spent a night with Ford’s girlfriend . ‘’ Joey, why can’t you be more like CG ?’’

That no reason for a vendetta, but it’s merely that Size Matters.

 

Thats great, yet in post 170 Chris Gardner (You sure that isnt you?) posted the following

"I heard about the 375AM parts for the first time in January 2010. Prior to that I saw this 375AM in a shop in Italy in the 1990's where I was told it was a replica. Later I saw it at a Ferrari challenge event, racing under the number 0394. I visited the Ohio daughter in April. I spent a day with her and saw the original parts. I sorted through even more 375AM pieces in an old building. The parts I saw had no fire damage. I took pictures. When I heard the ''burned out wreck '' story , I said WTF . I was interested in what she had, and her story. I did homework. I drove to Maranello to ask about the build sheet on 0394AM and 0384AM. I had NO idea the car was there. As I knew there was a Court ordered Status Quo on the movement of the car - it was shocking to see Swaters had it in Maranello unknown to the Ohio Court or the Judge. Surprised , I took a few pictures, asked questions and left. Within minutes my phone was ringing with Swater's enforcement demands, in 20 hours Swaters attorney attacked me with a cease and desist order for telling the truth of the cars location to the heirs. Swaters court motion was to bar me from visiting Ferrari SPa to speak further of the car again to them. I took more interest after that happened. So, first hand I learned the court was not aware that the car was in Italy. So it all went pear shaped quickly and legal docs flying after that.

I am a car collector interested in this 375AM. I was interested but have NO interest in the car other than that . The high end collectible car market is a small world , many of the big Ferrari guys with big multi MIL collections are now actively watching this thread - and I am interested it all. As I received a legal demand to shut my mouth, besides pissing me off , I figured I would read the suit and all the exhibits. What Ferrari SPa told me and what I know by reviewing the documents give me an opinion worth factoring that the car will be in Ohio again soon.

I do not know that Swaters swindled Kleve. All I do know is in the evidence of what Swaters has said, and what he admitted doing with the switching of VIN's and the logic behind it all from A to Z."

And he has no interest in the car (August 2010) which means what? And wow he spent the day with KKL but still only relied on what Joe Ford told him. So you ARE either saying that Chris Gardner is lying OR that he is extremely stupid, I personally cant see any other conclusion....... Please do explain, and if you arent Chris Gardner, call him or email him and ask, would love to know, be very informative.

2 very quick points,

1 - I am no lawyer but I dont understand how you can "un-steal" something and IMo compensation does not negate the loss, justice must still include some form of penalty for the criminal act?

2 - The only documents I have seen have shown that Joe Ford purchased 75% of the vehicle and tried to buy the other 25% which the court refused. Chris G certainly funded the court action but Joe Ford paid 300k for his share and I dont see how under any premise it can be constructed as Chris Gardner buying the vehicle.

Please do tell........

 

The photo you attached to your post is a cropped photo of a long-time user on this board, not of "Tom Price". Unless you're accusing BigTex of having a much bigger collection than he's let on to us over the years.

Photo deleted.

 

: )

 

I think the shark just got jumped.....

 

Joe

When did you eventually ship the parts ?

The Order entered on 8.19.2013 required you to ship within 7 days which implies it was after that date

 

Just watching out....

 

Max claims to be of Continental lineage with a Monaco location. yet his posts favor a Yank or Wank background... he claims to be a casual commentator, yet he spouts intimate knowledge about events dating back to the beginning of this saga... he spouts about the principals as if he knows them first hand, yet he is not mentioned anywhere as a principal, benefactor or lawyer in the many years this saga has been going on... one does not gain that information from this topic, yet how does he gain his material while claiming to be disengaged from this saga... lots of venal rhetoric, in expectation of credibility while spewing worse than a crippled skunk... who's poop'n who

 

Speaking of "credibility," it's kind of a strange coincidence that Max Vito and Chris Gardner BOTH each use the spelling, "creditabilty" (versus the far-more-typical "credibility") in their various respective posts....