Tony Stewart hits and kills fellow racer

This.

 

What am I talking about? What do you think I'm talking about?

I'm using hypotheticals to illustrate the point that when there's a caution, there are reasons to slow down. And, under a caution, special rules apply. Specifically, be prepared to stop to avoid things that may be on the track in front of you.

Safety officials were responding to the site of the racing incident. They were going to Ward/Ward's car. On a banked, circle track, that means the safety crew is going to have to cross the racing line. Whether they were en route or already on site isn't a grand distinction, as other cars had already backed out of it by then due to the caution. So, cars under caution need to be aware that there will, potentially, be people (or things) on the track to avoid.

CW

 

Agreed that Ward left his car and put himself in harm's way. For the sixth (?) time.

However, TS could/should have avoided him or been prepared to stop. Especially under caution. Your conclusion is wrong, and a civil jury could very easy conclude TS is to some large extent responsible.

CW

 

You are suggesting TS didn't slow down. How do you know this?

 

The view out the front seems relatively unobstructed, however. At some point (before he was next to him), Ward was in front of TS.

CW

 

I'm not picking on you - seriously, I'm not.

Why is Bob's conclusion wrong, and yours is correct? Why would TS stop while NO ONE else did? How do you know TS didn't slow down?

Look at the video of Willy T. Ribbs. Clearly saw the track worker. Clearly slowed down. Still, track worker was run over.

 

In the event there is a civil suit, there will be video offered. Witness testimonies offered. Team radio transmissions offered. Even, direct testimony by TS himself. There will be expert testimonies analyzing everything. This will be as thoroughly analyzed as possible.

I do not think TS intentionally injured Ward, even though I believe he could surely have meant to push him back. I think a jury, depending on the facts, could find that TS is responsible to some large extent.

CW

 

This was funny! Thanks.

Once you've gone to law school, give a call...

CW

 

Actually, watch the videos. There are plenty of incidents of this sort of conduct. This is not an isolated event. It's a rare one. But, it's not unique. And, I don't see that it's distinguishable from other helmet-throwing, glove-throwing or tantrum-throwing events at first blush. Using extreme examples (walking on a freeway) that have nothing to do with anything to prove a point aren't persuasive.

CW

 

I'm not suggesting TS didn't slow down at all. If anything, he couldn't go any faster than the car in front of him. Due to the caution, the pack had already slowed, so he was likely going as fast as the pack was.

But, TS did slow down. He slowed due to the caution (just compare the speeds at which the racing incident and drive-over occurred).

Whether that was enough could be in question.

CW

 

Couple things. 1. I've been a sprint and midget crew chief for many years. I've been around this type of racing since I was 12. 2. I know Tony.

To clear up a few things. He had slowed for the yellow. You can even compare his speed to cars before and after him.

The video is from the front straight entering 1. The hit was in the back stretch. The audio is from the front stretch. That is not his engine reving.

These cars only stop for Red flags. There is no clutch. Drive shaft is bolted to the crank. Red flags are usually only if car is upside down.

I really doubt Tony was upset about the wreck like the kid was. It was a very normal move by Tony and the kid should have lifted. For what ever reason he didn't and wrecked.

Getting out and MF'in a guy after you wreck is VERY common. I've probly seen it hundreds of times.

The view out the RF is Very limited.

The right rear sticks way out on a sprint car. That plus the lighting at the track puts a shadow on the right side. The kid "may" have miss judged and stepped a little to close to say "**** you" . Tony "May" have gave a quick swerve to say "**** you too" but I Know he would not run over someone on purpose.

 

I don't mean civil, I mean criminal. Absolutely 100% in a civil case, I think a jury can find him negligible.

I'm talking a criminal action.

 

Well said. I think most all of us agree he didn't run the guy over on purpose. The question is your last sentence - did he give a quick swerve to say "**** you"?

No one can say either way at this point. I have an opinion, but I have no way to prove one way or the other.

It just seems the pattern of laying blame on someone other than the person killed is all too commonplace now. We're seeing it with some of the latest in the news (St. Louis), and you are seeing it here.

 

I will do a search for the Ribbs video. And, avoidable accidents still do happen. Race tracks are inherently dangerous places. Even when a caution is out. Even in the pits (always been told that when I was waiting to do my driver change, to face the traffic). That way, you can see and hopefully avoid anything (tire, car, crewman, etc.) that's bouncing down the track at you.

You may have answered your own question. I think, based on another of your posts, that we agree that a criminal case is difficult to prove here, while a civil case has far more likelihood of apportioning some blame to TS. Some large portion, possibly, depending on what the jury might make of the theory that TS might have sought to brush Ward back.

Bob's declaration, rather, was that Ward is 100% at fault and TS is, therefore by calculation, 0% at fault. I don't know how much blame should be apportioned to TS (that's for a jury to determine), but I think it will be more than 0%. He drove over a guy under a caution (admittedly a guy who ran down in front of him) and possibly even sought to buzz the guy a little. I'd venture a guess that if plaintiff's counsel can't get any traction on the brush-back theory, less than 50%. If plaintiff's counsel can, much higher.

CW

 

Can't remember if I posted in this thread, but I served on a petit jury, and we thought it was a 50/50 case (lady involved in an accident, stood between the 2 cars...one of the cars was hit by a truck driver, crushed the lady's leg). 50/50 because clearly the truck driver hit the disabled car (not intentional), but the lady standing between the cars was repeatedly told by the officer on scene to move out from between the cars.

Civil suit - I wanted to pull every hair out of my head. Jury found truck driver 100% at fault...unreal.

I agree 100% TS will likely get blame in civil (almost goes without saying). I was thinking criminal, and while I'm not a fan of his, I just think his reputation already has people believing he did something intentional...certainly possible, just can't believe that's the case. We'll likely never know.

The Willy Ribbs thing was terrible...just a bad accident. I don't think anyone even realized when it happened, including Ribbs.

There was a lawsuit filed, I don't know the outcome, but I would think that CART and Ribbs' team (Raynor) ended up settling.

 

We may never know the true story but I think this sums up my POV well
Two drivers, both being aggressive and saying F you and got too close to each other.

I predict next we will see a dedicated PR campaign from SHR & Nascar--lots of very public remorse & apologies followed by the lawyers putting together a very lucrative "settlement" for the Ward family (ie keep them quiet, avoid civil suit, etc). I hope I am wrong, but this scenario may be inevitable.

Right or wrong, this WILL dog TS forever. Sad day for everyone involved.

Bill

 

the police and prosecutors have now said no less than 3 times that they won't be pursuing criminal charges.

 

Yes, but that isn't stopping the rush to judgement and what I'll call a looming assault on TS.

 

With regards to the civil suit TS is screwed IMHO. I can see ts's attorney arguing ward was reckless and that he shouldn't have been there on the track, and that is 100% correct. Then ward's team will show videos of ts's stupidity over the years. Throw in the sheeple that comprise juries today and TS is screwed, courtesy of karma.

No way should he be prosecuted criminally.....my 2 cents.

Condolences to the ward family.

 

Unless new evidence is offered.

CW

 

Yup.

 

as I understand it they have the GoPro (or the SD card from it) off Stewart's car....if that isn't enough to prosecute I don't think anything is.

and yes, I do fully expect a civil suit. Tony's a rich dude.

 

I could very easily hypothesize that there was a team radio transmission that went something like the following...

Crew Chief: T, be aware, he's out of his car, on the track and looking for you.

TS: What? Doesn't he know that was a fair move? Well, I'll give him something to think about...

10 seconds later

TS: Oh, Sh*t. Where'd he come from? The guy just jumped in front of me. I never even saw him.

Not saying that's how it went. Just saying, that if something like this comes out, I think manslaughter charges would likely follow shortly thereafter.

CW

 

See my last post.

CW

 

I'd be surprised if TS had a radio...the vast majority of sprint cars do not. at least not 2-way radios like NASCAR, F1, etc.