Why the giant runoff areas instead of gravel traps?

THAT. Use anything they want (gravel, asphalt with large speed bumps so cars have to zig-zag around them, a combination of things, etc), as long as there's enough of a time penalty for drivers to avoid them like the plague.

Drivers making mistakes and staying in front just because they were in front when they ran wide when being chased makes no freaking sense to me.

 

Couldn't agree more!..... If it works, blancmange, quicksand, or custard. Speed bumps in the right places seem a good idea.

There's a few places now where they seem to have successfully implemented the 'zig-zag to return' concept, and that's great. Hopefully, they're learning and take it further.

Again, totally agreed. My point has been not that they stay in front by cheating, but rather that the status quo is maintained. If you gain anything, you've got to give it up. But, if you're just pushing the limits of the track, same as the other guy, it makes for some good racing.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Blancmange!

 

Regarding Monza, i fail to see the logic of the tarmac. I can't even recall when we all saw an outside attempt to pass. Or, if any drivers making a mistake, and put the car into the kitty litter.

 

Err.... 2011, 2012 ring any bells?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=73HG73bHE3c

Cheers,
Ian

 

Don't you just love the internet

Just like when a bunch of nutters said Massa was hopeless in the wet and then he and Kubica have that ding dong wrestle in Japan in torrential rain

 

+1

And not just the circuit, but the exact corner we're discussing!

Hopefully, they're not going to run the tarmac all the way or another of the great corners looses its soul.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Firstly, I'm not that old

Secondly, that wasn't Parabolica? My original post was meant at Parabolica. Thanks!

 

That's curva grande, Ian

As long as the gravel stays where the drivers start running towards the line (i.e. where the real challenge in parabolica lies) I'm fine with a bit of extra braking zone where big crashes can occur.

 

Ha!!

You owe me a beer Ian..for being wrong!

Cheers mate!

 

Parabolica, Curva Grande, all the same! They're both quick right handers at least.

Fair enough. Got me there.

I suspect I've made bigger errors over the years. (no need to remind me of mixing up my Mikes recently either, thankyou!)

Cheers,
Ian

 

The level of racing you performed your passing and refer to is not quite F1. IMO, The difference between todays modern F1 drivers finishing positions, is more about the car than the talent. Yes there are better drivers than others, but the folks you mentioned are not passing anyone in a crap F1 car. Why is Vettel not leading the points if he is the priemire driver of the moment? No one at this level will overcome a mediocre car.

No insult, but strictly from a drivers comparision, you can put an F1 driver in a basic car and someone else with track experience in a much better, faster car and they will get passed. I once saw a 70+ year old Brian Redman start in the back row of 25+ cars, at a Vintage race of 10 laps, at Lime Rock Park which is only a 1.5 mile circuit, located in CT, USA. He passed the entire field and he was not in the best car.

 

This is what it looks like everyone:

http://t.co/SbAEbRWmzL

No need to cry.

 

Agree on all points. I was just trying to make a point using I guess a poor example ... and yes my level was amateur racing.

Still think DRS was implemented for those that don't understand motorsport and need instant gratification by seeing lots of passes. Some of the best races I've seen never had few or no passes: Adelaide 94' was awesome until the "incident".
Pete

 

Good post

 

I believe the most advancement in F1 over the years is the braking distance. They just stop so fast it is mind blowing to watch. Downforce and carbon brakes have made it trully like "Stopping on a Dime" from 200 mph. So now if you have a paved run off area you have a chance of stopping before hitting the fence and causing serious injury to the driver.

Regarding penalties for drivers who cheat and run wide, very difficult to monitor and most of the time it is not the quickest way around the circuit. If advantage was gained then they should be given a penalty and at minimum give back any position if it was gained.

Personally I don't mind the paved run off areas as I did not like the severity of "race over" in a gravel trap for a potentially minor mistake on a braking point or a push from a competitor.

 

It seems to be forgotten that these circuits are not the sole preserve of F1 drivers! - There are plenty of lower classes of racing that these circuits have to cater for, with drivers who do not have the same level of ability as the likes of Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton or Alonso.

These inexperienced drivers are far more likely to misread a situation, take a wild chance or fail to control a car and end up putting it on its roof in a gravel trapped corner than the F1 drivers are.

For race circuits, there's a far bigger picture to take care of than just F1 when it comes to on track safety!

As for:

I take it then that it's your belief that Senna never used a system where he pressed a button to go faster than his rivals in order to overtake?

Personally, I suspect he made full use of the turbo over-boost button when it was on his cars!

 

There was no such feature on those turbo charged cars he drove (they were boost limited by the FIA), unless you are saying McLaren cheated!
Pete

 

McClunken cheat

No way Jose, would never happen

 

I actually think it is insulting to Ayrton to imply that he needed a device to enable a pass. Yes even Senna got held up due to the lost of downforce when following somebody close but if there was a chance he was through.

Also turbo engines were phased out by 1989 so he only drove them for 5 years and he raced for another 5 ...
Pete

 

I think it's pretty fair to say that they would not run at full power for the entire race. Cars weren't allowed to refuel back then so they would drain their tank running at full boost the entire time.

 

Understood but he still made passes in the post turbo days.

We have to remember that nobody races the whole race long absolutely flat out (except Stirling Moss at Monaco) and yes there are laps when they are pushing harder than others ... it is about your position not overall race time.
Pete
ps: Stirling talking about 1961 Monaco

 

Well, turns out I cheered too early:

http://t.co/LAtgAZLs9q

Parabolica has well and truly been ruined. Well done FIA morons .

 

I won't lose any sleep over insulting Senna! - Not after Suzuka 1990!

At least if there had been tarmac between turns 1 and 2 at Suzuka in 1990 he might have tried to drive around Prost's Ferrari rather than straight through it!

(And the race could have become an all time classic rather than a shameful chapter in F1 history!)