Tony Stewart hits and kills fellow racer

*Most* successful drivers have an altered state in a race, no matter what "nice guy" they may be off the track, if you could see into their heads during a race you'd go yipes! Some of the drivers, like Kyle Busch, hang in this state much much longer after they are out of the car. Others can snap out of it faster. You can't drive in competition like this and not have a certain brutality to your mindset.

 

I am drawing the conclusion that you're not actually comparing the Earnhardt crash to this. Merely asking a question about apportionment amongst the drivers?

CW

 

Thanks -- this is definitely a more representative viewpoint height

 

GTE is casting stones. No one here is trying to positively convict Tony. The point of the thread has been to be provotive and explore the possibilities of what occurred and things that may have led to the tragedy. Cornerswwll has graciously provided legal guidance and perspective as a racer and as an attorney. I might add he has not even been billable. Again, very gracious.

Others have provided personal endorsements of Tony. Many of the posts are from racers of various disciplines offering their understanding of the rules in accordance with various sanction's General Competition Rules (GCR). Some have been directly involved in sprint car racing or follow it closely and fully understand the racing and the culture...this has been hugely helpful.

Bottom line is there is an ongoing investigation and no pending threat of criminal consequences to date...but that could change though most of us think that unlikely.

There is a greater likely hood of a civil action at which time all scenarios discussed in this thread will be run to ground and all of Tony's past antics and history will be investigated during discovery. We can only watch and see how this plays out.

In the meantime I suspect Tony is being closely advised and is hunkered down. I personally feel sad for all and agree that this all could have been avoided had ward just taken his licks and avoided the opportunity to grandstand.

Thank you again to Cornerswell for his professional perspective.

Best,

PCB

 

I disagree. It is always a "far better idea" to stay in the car on a "live" racetrack, regardless of venue. The place to draw the line is on not getting out of the car while cars are circulating. Too much of a slippery (and deadly) slope beyond that.

 

Nearly all of us agree. Many of us also point out that while you are 100 percent correct, drivers in various forms of racing get out of their cars in anger and often endanger themselves on a far too infrequent basis.

Right or terribly wrong, it happens.

 

Yes, it's not entirely same set of circumstances because as you noted, the track worker did not have intent to run up to Ribbs' car. If memory serves, I think a 2nd worker died later, can't remember.

I was putting that up as an analogy from the perspective that Ribbs clearly saw the track worker and still hit him. He appears to do what he can to avoid him, retrospectively it wasn't enough. It's possible same happened with TS / Ward...he simply misjudged and hit him. It's also possible TS intentionally swerved and hit Ward, I don't know.

What will likely be similar is that there was a civil suit (presuming Ward's family does same, and I think they will) - don't know what the outcome was, but they did name CART and the Raynor team in it. My guess is they settled with the estates of the victims, curious to know what the details were (can't find them).

 

... face facts. Death turns people on. The more heinous and gruesome, the more helpless the victims, the more it turns us on... In the consumerist wasteland of the apocalypse, the popcorn and bon-bons they'll sell.

No room for argument, on every sidewalk, on every street, in every town, in every county, in every state, of every nation on every continent on this planet, at a very tender age you learned the rules of the road: The pedestrian always (ALWAYS) has the right-of-way; blame always (ALWAYS) rests squarely upon the shoulders of the motorist with the last clear chance, to avoid the accident.

The only exception, organized motor sport, where a driver is free to satiate himself, deliberately running down pit workers, corner marshals, spectators, helpless pedestrians, but for no good reason than to quench his blood-lust. No driver in motor sport history has ever been taken to task, or subjected to compensatory or punitive damages, much less charged for having killed a spectator, a corner marshal, a track worker or a fellow competitor.

A race driver must always be keen upon remembering the organized motor sport handy-dandy press statement: "... words are not enough to describe the sadness I feel. Please join me in prayer, to jeeeezus almighty, for the families of [INSERT NAME OF VICTIM'S FAMILY]."

The JESUS card's a nice touch. But, most oftentimes, you'll want to hold the JESUS card back, for when things get sticky (e.g., if and when the story transcends the 48 hour media-cycle).

Our Tony's a smart-smart boy. Very clever. Isn't he? Five gets you ten Stewart (1) plays the JESUS card, and (2) plays the "no one outside motor sport can ever truly understand how and why this happened" card -- asj.

 

The cynicism of your posts is so extreme and over the top that it almost must be trollish parody. Assuming for a moment that you really do mean what you say, please cite an instance where a racing driver "deliberately" ran someone down.

 

... five gets you another ten organized motor sport closes ranks, and declares the killing of Kevin Ward "...a racing incident."

Next thing you'll see happen: "... people who believe Tony Stewart is innocent, are the smart people; people who believe Tony Stewart committed a crime, are the ignorant people. And, that's on account, the only people who can ever truly understand this tragic incident, are the people of organized motor sport."

Since June of 1955, organized motor sport's been pulling this little stunt. Without fail, it works every time. Master of the universe, our boy Tony Stewart, he is going to walk away, scoff-free. Isn't he? -- asj.

 

Except for the fact that he has to live with that incident for the rest of his life.

BHW

 

This is not a city street, there is no sidewalk, no crosswalk. The only comparable situation is an interstate highway. If somebody jumped into 40mph traffic during rush hour on I95 and got hit, no motorist would be prosecuted, guaranteed. This guy ran directly into oncoming traffic. He was not on a sidewalk, in a crosswalk or just walking down the side of a road somewhere, he intentionally ran head-on into traffic. How is TS culpable for somebody else's decision? Ward and Ward alone decided to step in front of a line of cars moving 40mph, nobody else's decision is important as if he doesn't do that, he doesn't die, period.

 

It would probably be more beneficial for your argument to give specific examples rather than just speaking in vague generalities. Who do you think is perpetrating this? The press been fairly critical -- a lot of the headlines or stories lead with comments like "Tony may be in trouble" even though the content of those same stories indicate that no charges are pending. From this, it seems likely that they will report it if they find something amiss.

The only thing that seems unusual to me is that there are apparently only two crappy spectator videos that the investigation is being based upon. It seems unlikely that there isn't more video out there from cars, the track, the press, other spectators, etc.

 

More than welcome. Happy to try to add to this. Just remember, though, you're getting what you paid for .

CW

 

It would appear that Ribbs merely ran out of road as he tried to move over and avoid the safety worker. He had already committed to going through by that time.

I didn't say that these types of things don't ever happen. They're very rare, though.

CW

 

I've tried (a couple of times, now), but you continue to say (dogmatically, at this point?) Ward and Ward alone is responsible. Sorry, but you were wrong then, and you're still wrong now. Your analogy falls short.

Deal with last clear chance for me, counselor, please. This is related to comparative and contributory negligence, FYI.

"a rule of law in determining responsibility for damages caused by negligence, which provides that if the plaintiff(the party suing for damages) is negligent, that will not matter if the defendant (the party being sued for damages caused by his/her negligence) could have still avoided the accident by reasonable care in the final moments (no matter how slight) before the accident. The theory is that although the plaintiff may have been negligent, his/her negligence no longer was the cause of the accident because the defendant could have prevented the accident. Most commonly applied to auto accidents, a typical case of last clear chance would be when one driver drifts over the center line, and this action was noted by an oncoming driver who proceeds without taking simple evasive action, crashes into the first driver and is thus liable for the injuries to the first driver who was over the line. In the few states which apply the strict "contributory negligence" rule which keeps a negligent plaintiff from recovering damages from a negligent defendant, "last clear chance" can save the careless plaintiff's lawsuit."

CW

 

Without trying to get into the middle of this I have a question. When did it become acceptable to leave your racer and get into the track during a race caution or not? It seems very common now and you see it even in very well run racing. i raced on those old bullrings professionally for 4 years. Back then that didn't happen at all, although there were plenty of good fights in the pits. The track is dark, wet from the water truck (wet clay gets slipperier than eel snot) and you just don't have perfect control even under the yellow and even on a Motorcycle let alone a weight jacked Sprint with tiny front tires. Is this an Internet/TV thing or something the sanctioning bodies allow because spectators like it?

 

Just word salad. Lots of noise trying to sound enlightened yet really saying nothing

 

Certainly as far back as 2012...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ckPEP1Z3CY

Commentator: "...looks familiar." So, probably before that, even!

CW

 

And, here was 1999...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mRY79mat34

CW

 

Or, farther back? 1993...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAVDRgAAy48

CW

 

Here they are on one page...

Tony Stewart Not the First to Throw Helmet

CW

 

... organized motor sport, firmly in control from the outset, immediately after the altercation which claimed the life of Kevin Ward, speedway officials ordered the facility on lock-down, all spectator eye-witnesses unrelated to motor sport summarily dismissed, ordered to vacate the facility, immediately.

As always, Stewart was carrying a personal Go-Pro camera, on-board. Witnessed to have stopped along the back straightaway after running down Kevin Ward, Stewart was reported, by eyewitnesses, to be busying himself, frantically doing something inside his cockpit. Track workers subsequently arrived to Stewart's vehicle, surprised see him still fully harnessed. Feared destroyed or erased, it is yet unapparent whether Stewart's Go-Pro footage has fallen into the hands of authorities, or whether Stewart was able to erase it in time, before it was seized by authorities.

In the aftermath, several eyewitnesses provided key testimony to authorities, having witnessed crew members removing Stewart's right rear, haphazardly replacing it with a left-side wheel just in the nick of time before his car was seized, by authorities. Authorities were advised later, that Stewart's tyre was indeed replaced. Unclear whether the tyre and wheel used to run down Kevin Ward was ever found, begs more questions than answers.

Why authorities have suppressed the toxicology is yet unapparent.

Organized motor sport against the world, at this moment in time, rest assured motor sport's best and brightest minds are busy whirring away, in collaboration behind the scenes deciding exactly how this Kevin Ward thing needs to be played out. Boasting the most highly skilled PR people in North America, organized motor sport is anything but toothless. Not a single peep out of the motor sport fraternity, denote how, over the course of first 48 hour aftermath, not one fellow driver stepped forward, on the record, in public defense of Tony Stewart...

Expect that to soon change, as the corporations and the sanctioning bodies ratchet down, pressuring and leveraging their drivers, to publicly advocate for Tony Stewart and come out in his defense.

Organized motor sport protects its own. Rest assured, Tony Stewart is well cared for, beneficiary to the finest legal advocacy, and the most effective PR apparatus motor sport can buy. So, don't you worry your pretty little head. Rest assured, our boy Tony will walk away from this whole thing, winking off-camera, grinning ear-to-ear, not a care in the world -- asj.

 

This behavior is encouraged by the networks and racing, more people wanting to watch drama unfold means more ratings and advertising revenue...reminds me of the staged wrestling..until this behavior is stopped, on the track and off, more people are going to be killed/injured, and if that is a consequence of better ratings for the networks and racing..thats a risk that everyone is going have to accept and stop sensationalizing it..

 

If you can cite sources for any of that, asjoseph, you should.

But, I don't for an instant believe the industry condones one competitor killing another. Certainly not intentionally.

CW