Yes, that is very true. The depreciation after one year on the FF is crazy but the new PTTS's are being discounted as well.
Ff is an impractical 4 seater IMO. No rear doors? Imagine taking a group out and having to climb into the back seat? The Pani four doors and rear seats can fit a 6'4 guy comfortably and with trunk room for luggage for 4 adults. If you don't need the four seats and want the v12, get an f12' otherwise I'd vote on the Pani-- It's really an amazing car.
I would borrow the Panni for a weekend. I had one for 2 weeks as a loaner. While the car is fast and wonerful inside, I thought the visability was very poor. I never felt like i know where the car was.
I'm 6'1" and regularly show people how easy it is to get into the back seat in my FF, behind my driver's seat, all without moving my normal driving position. And yes there is room for me. The doors are large, making it easy to get in the back and easier for my old body to get in and out every day. I've watched this thread for a while. I've owned three Porsche 928's over the years and have been a PCA member for 27+ years. It is simple, the Pano is a very cool car but is crap compared to the FF. If you don't want to be noticed and love Porsche's buttons galore interior and don't want the music that the V12 intake and exhaust provides then get the Pano ... and take a nap. If money is no object and if you want a thrill every darn day that you drive your car, and don't mind thumbs up every day then do the right thing and get the FF. The FF is Ferrari's best kept secret. Rick
I'd probably take a used FF over a new PTTS if they were the same price because I think the Panamera value will take just like the FF did when new. There is really no market for the PTTS, just like the Cayenne Turbo -- they are just powerful versions of cars for regular people who are more into brand than performance. That said, both the cars are too risky from a depreciation perspective. I wouldn't be shocked to see the FF down another $50K in 1-2 years. PTTS would probably do the same in 2 years as well. I'd probably get a used PTTS from a value proposition, though I wouldn't buy either car anyway
Well, I said 12-24 months. For the FF it could be $4K/month because they have lost anywhere from $50-80K/year for the first two years now. There is a 2014 listed for $80K under MSRP already and it's been there a while. These cars just aren't selling and are super expensive. Panamera wouldn't be that high, but I personally wouldn't $2K/month to drive a Panamera with a lot of HP. Buy it used for a lot less or just get the Panamera S. No matter how much power it has, it's still a Panamera. Put a chip in a new E63 and it will walk away from it for far less in a straight line.
so just lease the ff and then you know what it will cost. besides if you plan on owning something for a year then forget it anyway. i've owned my 599 for 7 years now.....but who's counting
The other thread going on right now mentions the leases as being terrible, though they list no specific. But yea, if you'll keep it for a long time, then it doesn't make that much of a difference over the long run. Whether that is the OPs intentions or not, I don't know.
But they did sell. If you are seeing an FF on the used market, it means it already sold, once. Ferrari made their money. If you mean that used FFs are not selling well, is there evidence somewhere to support this? My local dealer website has two FFs that have sat but in the meantime they've sold a dozen ... Must be something about the color or config of these two. That same dealer has three times as many 458s and they are not moving quickly either. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Well, I guess that's based on Ferrari's expectations and margins. Guess we'll never know if it's selling well in that sense. I'd say the extent of depreciation is very much indicative of demand. If they were selling well, the used market would be much firmer IMO. Given what we know about Ferraris volumes in general and the $80-100K/year in depreciation on barely used FFs, I'd say volume is low and demand is low. If the demand was good, you wouldn't need such discount to sell a car. I can't imagine trying to sell a black/black FF for $150-200K more than another black/black FF. There is a $150K difference between the asking prices of these three very similar cars, two looking nearly identical. Cars for Sale: 2014 Ferrari FF in Seattle, WA 98122: Hatchback Details - 378719540 - AutoTrader.com Cars for Sale: 2012 Ferrari FF in Pompano Beach, FL 33064: Hatchback Details - 370350605 - AutoTrader.com Cars for Sale: 2012 Ferrari FF in Newport Beach, CA 92663: Hatchback Details - 376076794 - AutoTrader.com This one has nearly a $200K lower asking price. Black/Black with some miles. That's a 458 worth of difference. Used 2012 Ferrari FF for sale in Portland - Ron Tonkin Gran Turismo - Wilsonville Oregon - ZFF73SKA6C0187676
TBH I'd rather compare the FF with the new Rapide S, Bentleys, or new S63. All of the four mentioned are quite beautiful cars that also produces a very nice sound. The Panamera in my opinion is not a appealing car. It may be practical but it's just as practical as all the other saloons. If it was me, I would be choosing between the new S63 or FF but I guess I'm slightly biased because I have the S63.
The RTGT car does not look like it was a high MSRP car, and with 16K miles, any modern Ferrari is going to take a trade in beating. NFW this is a "$200K under" car, though those exist (a 2012 with a $400K sticker with 10K+ miles moved for $220). The Seattle car looks like they are asking around MSRP. No doubt the FF is an enigma. Remember that 2012 cars were mostly uber-optioned with high MSRP's on options the resale market ignore. There were probably 30-50 demo cars out there, and I know my dealer over-optioned the hell out of them. Plus in 2013 FNA included about $15K of "options" into the standard. Also, no doubt at all that a lot of FF's were purchased as "entry points" to get in line for 458 Spiders or F12's (well documented here) so you likely have a wave of these cars on the market on trade. All of this exacerbates/skews market pricing (above and beyond what would be the typical V12/4-seat/Ferrari depreciation on what was already a controversial car) On the other hand, most FF owners rave about the cars, and depreciation is only a reality when you want to trade or sell. Seems most of the (internet) criticism is from non-owners and primarily on the design (which is fine, everyone has an opinion). Drive the car and live with it, it's downright phenomenal. It's not a replacement for a 4-door S class or an SUV, it's in a very tight niche.
Admittedly, I'm not familiar with the options on these cars, but when I look at the pictures of the $375K 2014 and the RTGT one, I don't see many differences. Seats look different though not sure which is more expensive, one has regular CF, the other has the silver stuff. Unless there is a ton of mechanical/performance options, they look pretty comparable. I guess the people who bought the 2012s in order to get in line for the Spiders and F12 might have just been better paying a premium on those rather than sticker on an FF. They may not have kept the cars long, but if they did, $150-200K sure would have covered premiums on the next 4 models.
Many shrewd comments here by listers, and to me it is true to say they are vastly different cars, even if by close competitors. I am tempted to quote the old cliché to sum it up:- "There is Ferrari and then there is transportation" The Porsche is excellent transportation, and so is Mercedes Benz, Bentley etc., but Ferrari is entirely different and it is clear they have kept this visceral, jaw dropping, arguably mesmerizing experience with the FF. My suggestion would simply be, you either get that in your gut, or your don't. If you don't... then buying the Porsche might be the best way to go. If you do, well I'm tempted to say there is arguably little 'choice' to make.
I've been really drawn to the Panamera lately, want to have one at some point. But I've driven the Panamera TTS and honestly, it's really not much fun. It's so damn fast you run out of road and speed limit instantly and never really knew you were accelerating. Panamera GTS is probably the sweet spot. At least you get to dig into the throttle a little. Can't speak intelligently on the FF though having never driven it, but I'll bet it suffers from the same problem, just not enough room to roam. Too much car. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
This is the case with just about all modern high-performance cars now. It's really hard to get deep into the throttle without going too fast, too quickly.
Forums are for opinions. Here's mine - the Panamera isn't in the same ballpark as the FF if you are a car guy/driver. The FF looks better, sounds waaaaaayyyy better, is a more rewarding driving experience and for maybe $30-$50k more than a new PTTS you can get a near new $400k FERRARI. The FF might be the best deal in the $200k car market - I just can't see a reasonably well cared for car ever dropping below $150k over the next few years. A 651hp Ferrari V12 for $200k - do it!!!! There's a reason you came home without the PTTS and researched if there was a better option for a $200k 4-seater.
