Ferrari, Not for Everyone?

hmmm.

"Complete lack of transparency", no. Do they know things that you and I do not, yes, I agree.
Question is , what are those things? And will they offer a solution when they figure it all out, and how quickly.

There are still some questions, which are being looked into now. I don't think this was a pre-meditated failure, that FNA has know was coming. I think there have been a few failures in relation to the total number of cars sold and that are being driven.

Asking how many are at risk is like asking how many drivers will experience a flat... all tires run the risk of picking up a nail... but not all of them do.

And I can also tell you that of the cars that have had DCT failures, they all have one thing in common. The way that they have been driven.

NOTE: I am NOT in any way blaming the owner, I am simply stating that is something they all have in common.

Example, alot of the early failures were in what car......... the 458 Challenge... all cars driven the absolute hardest they possibly could be... so again, I cannot fault them, I don't think anyone is hiding anything, actually I think it's the opposite. I think FNA is trying their very best to get in front of a problem and have gone from replacing the entire unit ( al la 458C Failures ) to offering a rebuild option.

 

This statement alone reflects a total lack of understanding of not only the car repair business but the entire service and repair business.

Besides all the steps that Ferrari is taking the only thing preventing intervention by everyone else is the warranty coverage still largely in effect.

Do you really believe everyone is till returning their horseless carriages to Henry Ford for factory repair?

 

And I'm not trying to argue with you. In fact, on my levels we agree.

HOWEVER, owners DO have these issues hanging over their heads and the company's reaction to it is to sweep it under the rug.

AND, there is something Ferrari can do to remove these worries to owners.

Namely, do a free warranty extension of the DCT boxes in 2009 to 2014 models for another 2 or 3 years after the factory warranty -- namely back up your confidence in what you are selling with your words.

Next, have a swapped box have an unlimited 3 year warranty, just like a new car.

If they were to do these things, owners would not worry and resale values long term will be preserved.

So, why not do it? If they believe the boxes will last that long anyway, why not just extend the warranty and make potential owners feel better about plopping out 200 grand on a used car? If the boxes are good, where's the risk?

 

You make a very good point here.

I've had to invest in high dollar special tool kits in order to perform the DCT repairs.
I've also had to send each of my technicians to specialized training to learn the in's and out's of the rebuild process.

I'm not sure how many independant shops will be in a position to purchase these same tools and where are they going to get the training? Trial and Error? I hope not.

Once a DCT repair has been completed, we have to connect to Ferrari SpA for the programming to bring it all back online. How is an independant shop going to address that part of the repair?

I remember when I was on the other side ( independant shop ) and purchased the diag tool to read codes and diagnose Ferrari's and Maserati's ... that alone made me second guess working with Italians. LoL

S

 

I was in your place for years and I was the recipient of much of their training. I make better tools for less money and the training is just not that special.

Even in the dealers I heard plenty of what we couldn't do, all I ever said was "so should we stop?"

That sells pretty well to outsiders. Don't waste the breath on me.

 

+1

Yes, I absolutely see that happening. Markets may take some short term radical swings, but it will stabilize.

 

I like the way you think... and it would keep the cars in house so to speak!

Come to think of it the warranty on the repair would be 24 months, not 12.

And I think Ferrari is taking a step in the right direction by adding the option to purchase a FNA backed extended warranty.

S

 

I said MOST, not all.

With all due respect (and I mean that, it's not sarcasm), are you willing to go into the DCT rebuild business then? Why not? Just have owners send the boxes to you and you fix them and give them a one year warranty.

But I feel when it's all said and done, for what you would have to charge and cost of R & R the DCT rework for free would make it too high a risk.

I don't see many independents doing that. It's just too risky for a box that may, in fact, have engineering flaws.

If you feel differently, that's fine. I think most independent shops would not take that risk.

I think you are I are not so far apart in our understanding here.

And I'm just curious here.. what do you do when someone has a 456 GTA with a bad box. Rebuild it?

 

As confident as you come across, without the training Ferrari offered you, are you saying you would be where you are today with or without it? You could have just figured it all out? How would you create that better tool to connect with Ferrari SpA?

And where would you come up with the design for your better tools, if you had not been on the inside, to have the chance to at minimum copy what you saw?

S

 

I've got work to do.. back tomorrow to carry on this conversation.

:-D

S

 

Problem with the DCT is they are Getrag and Getrag only. It's not really like an "old" thing. Unless you're a Getrag technician wanting it out, I don't see anyone opening those complicated boxes and figuring everything out.

Getrag itself gains much more by selling them new than by repairing them.

 

My clear coat damaged to the point of peeling from a highway rock chip. However the car itself has been reliable and Ive put 7000 miles in 3 months, including many high speed runs, lots of revs, tons of twistys.

I agree these cars are not for everyone, and quality control isn't really the best for such high $. The problem is the competition doesn't offer anything better.

Also I can attest Ferrari OEM parts are 30-50% cheaper in Europe then US. They are actually quite reasonable.

 

Problem is it's just too difficult to find skilled individuals these days. Everyone is getting useless degrees and coming out unable to do anything. Sure you might be good at repairs, but the factory would need 100x more guys. It's just cheaper for them to scrap the entire gearbox vs training squads of brainless 25 year olds.

 

+1

 

You mean like 986 and 996 Porsches. Same thing. Bad IMS, engine dies.. send it back to germany for a rebuilt/new crate engine with a 1yr warranty.

Now we have Jake Raby INSTRUCTING indys how to rebuild the engines. So.. yes. There will be indys that will take the plunge if there is sufficient demand. Key is, like with 986 and 996 engines, the failure modes need to be identified. If its simply electronics and actuators then yes.. there will be a future in this. Porsche BTW had absolutely no say or input into his business model.

 

Yes, you did interpret my post correctly as being condescending. If not for the pics I saw of you I would have thought I was talking to Justin Beiber. I would have expected more maturity of someone your apparent age. As to caring about people's opinions, obviously you do care or you would have ignored my post. However, I take that as a good sign that there is hope for you.

No problem with that, but why don't you think about doing something that makes other people who are less fortunate happy? Sorry, but I have no sympathy for your first world antics and problems. Grow up, some day.

 

I guess my issue is that I don't think Getrag supplies parts to the boxes. So, it's difficult to repair a specialized part if you can't get a spare.

I may be wrong but I'm very, very sure Dealers cannot get internal parts for the DCT.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/612-599/454334-599-08-gtb-purchase-inspection-2.html

Start at post 29 from yesterday.

 

Yep. The test drive location at Disney in Orlando stated their 458 had a total of 3 new 30k gear boxes. Yikes.

 

You mean out and apart like this:
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No. It's what's known as "Italian logic" or simply "craziness and blame shifting" to the Anglo Saxon community.

 

In the end lets look at 355 prices. This was a car that was great to drive, in fact to drive its a sweetspot in ferrari hstory, yet given the known failure issues woudl you wnat to own one. A 355 is a 50K car thta can eat 20-40k easily.

The 458 will become a 65K car that can eat 30-40k easily. Or put another way a 458 wont be worth buying untill its price is cheap enough that the big repair bills can be factored in tot eh total ownership experience.

Anyway expolding gearboxes I know abotu ever heard of the dreded Boxer/Tr diff failure.

So when do you think I can get an FF for 65 K, how many transmissions need to go bamng before the price gets low enough/.