Tony Stewart hits and kills fellow racer

Very Very small but important distinction here:

Ward pointed, and then ran.

When the camera comes back on Ward, Ward is no longer pointing. Ward pointed while the #45 obstructed Ward's path to TS' car. Ward is simply running when the camera comes back, alternating which arm is forwards like a sprinter in a foot race.

By no longer taking the energy to be pointing at Tony, Ward is expending a greater energy in his motion at Tony.

Unrelated.
If this had happened on the straight, Tony would have better options to dodge Ward, in a corner, his ability is limited as his car is already using a significant portion of its grip to maintain minimum speed.

With my own personal track experience, but not racing on dirt in NY(Soil changes things), the car requires quite a lot more input to change direction then when properly set with an intended move for a racing corner. Once something unexpected pops into your path, and you are at or near idle, its much harder to get the car to move up or down the track, then if you planned a lower path far back in the corner. In a solid axle locked differential racing machine, the "set" determines where you go and how fast. Going under caution - you don't have a good "set" anymore.

Sprint car drivers are not data junkies due to the fact that conditions change so rapidly. Otherwise, I'd like to pull up data on the radius of the turn, the path Tony's car followed, the G-force required for that path, and then compare that to possible available grip. The first of those could be calculated with speed and radius, but knowing what the sprint car had available is not as easy.

 

I cannot say what TS saw or didn't see of Ward leading up to the impact. Unless there's in-car footage from TS' perspective, that will have to be based on what TS testifies to and what experts can reconstruct.

I can only say that under a caution, it is reasonable to anticipate that people may be on track. As such, you need to be prepared to avoid them. If you're driving it, you're responsible for what happens while you're behind the wheel. And, it's also reasonable to believe that when you get into it with someone on-track, they may be looking for you when you come 'round.

I hear what you're saying about sprint car design, and it will also have to be calculated into the final equation by experts. A trier of fact will have to try and make sense of the expert opinions. But, we're all also going to be coming at this from our own point of view and based on our own experiences.

CW

 

... characteristic of "don't squeeze the juice" leading up to the OJ trial, back in '93, lap 14 at hillbilly Bristol it's going to be, "... yeeeeeeh, daughie! Put another possum on the grill, granny! Ever-body gonna be 'Standing up for Smoke!'"

THE QUESTION OF THE DAY: If there's a pedestrian in the crosswalk? And, you weaved into a puddle to amuse yourself, splashing gutter water upon him? But instead, you botched it, and wound up running him down, flatter than a pancake? Not with the front corner of your car, mind you, but with your right rear wheel, no less? Then, on account it was proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, it so happen that pedestrian you just killed happened to be angry with you? Shaking his fist at you, in defiance? Should NASCAR's hillbilly boys be called upon to stand and celebrate you, to sing your praises on lap 14 at Bristol?

Disgusting. Isn't it?

Though hitting a pedestrian with the frontal area of the vehicle can be construed an accident? Contemporary crash forensics 101 for idiots: justification nearly impossible for any motorist hitting a pedestrian (1) with his right-rear wheel, (2) steering at opposite lock, (3) arching the car hard-to-port, (4) still accelerating, (5) traffic signals flashing yellow, whether the pedestrian was running away, or standing in defiance, is wholly irrelevant.

Even the most obtuse of community college drop-outs would have little choice but begrudgingly concede, prima facie, opened and shut, guilty-guilty-guilty! If you run down a pedestrian? Going full opposite lock? Arching hard-to-port. While still accelerating? Yellow lights flashing? And, you couldn't be bothered to make a stab, for the brake pedal? You tossed a pedestrian 50 feet like a rag doll; punctured your right-rear tyre crushing the pedestrian's head? Sorry, pal. It is 100% your fault. Not only are you a lousy driver? You are a low quality human being. You are a disgusting person. You are unworthy to live amongst us.

"Go to jail! Directly to jail! Do not pass Go! Do not collect US$200!"

Organized motor sport: bastion for low quality human beings who grope to grasp rudimentary crash forensics. Things are so bad here in America, its motorists no longer grasp nor respect the meaning, of yellow lights... -- asj.

 

No, it's not reasonable to anticipate a driver dressed in black at night standing in what is left of a narrow, poorly lit race track. It is not reasonable to believe that a driver would get out of his car, let alone head onto what had become the line. With the car not engulfed in flames, it was reasonable to assume that the driver was strapped into his car or if he had exited, on the other side of the barrier where he was trained to go. The last place that a driver would expect to see another driver is standing in front of him on the track.

A friend of a friend was at Canandaigua that night. It is not the Daytona International Speedway. It's a very small, poorly lit, dirt track in the middle of nowhere in upstate New York. He and others watching from the stands could not see what had happened and didn't know until later that Ward had been hit and killed.

Has anyone ever seen the aftermath of an accident on the highway? What is your natural reaction? Do you look at the wreck or keep your eyes straight ahead and ignore the scene? Has anyone considered the possibility that TS was rubbernecking and that's why he didn't see Ward until it was too late?

 

I'm looking for a new cowcatcher to mount to the car for my next HPDE and maybe some of those spikes that stick out of the wheels too- preferably titanium to keep unsprung weight down.

 

I disagree. Regardless of the color of the firesuit, all drivers must be on the look out. Harder to see black at night? Yes. Impossible? No. We could ALL see him in the video. Maybe the lighting was different from TS' vantage point. All that will be studied and/or opined on by experts or other drivers who were on track at the time of the incident.

And, it's very reasonable to assume that someone you just put out of the race (intentionally or otherwise) might be angry with you. It was entirely foreseeable that the driver could be out of the car and ready to get it on when the other car came back around. Just as TS has done himself in the past.

Sure the track is different. And, nighttime conditions are different than day time. But, each and every driver needs to be prepared to deal with those factors when they race. And, everyone is facing the same situations. In the video, someone instantly remarked that TS had run over the other driver. So, the fact that some people couldn't see/didn't know doesn't mean it was impossible to see or know. And, the trier of fact will have to decide, based on the evidence presented, whether TS could or could not have seen Ward and avoided him.

I don't know whether racers rubberneck or what TS was doing. I can say that I don't. I'm more focused on picking my way through the accident scene so as to avoid personnel and debris. Or, I'm on the radio talking to my crew. Or, I'm trying to keep a safe distance from the car in front of me (as we approach the incident). Or, I have to be prepared to stop on a dime, if necessary. Or, I'm checking my gauges. Or, I'm trying to figure out the thunking noise coming from somewhere in the car. Or, or, or. I certainly concede that TS may not have seen Ward. The cockpit of a race car, even under caution, is a busy place. But, it's also entirely possible that TS did see Ward, and the brush-back-gone-wrong theory is valid.

CW

 

Is it reasonable to anticipate that there will be cars trying to take position during the active part of a race? Are you supposed to be prepared to avoid them? If you are driving during the race, are you responsible for accidents that happen while racing? Is it reasonable to believe that when you get into it with someone on-track, they may be looking for you in a future race?

We can play lawyer games all day, but the kid was looking for trouble, and he found it!


BT

 

Matlock doesn't understand how to steer one of these.


BT

 

Green flag and yellow flag conditions are different, so I'm really not following your point. What can happen under a green (hard racing, collisions, offs, etc.) should not happen under a yellow.

It is certainly possible that lasting "bad blood" can be created between drivers. Personally, I've always done my best to avoid that kind of sentiment. But, it's always possible that the other guy hasn't. So, you sort of have to be prepared to defend yourself, if necessary. You might be looking out for the other guy. Just out of self-preservation. There were some early reports that there might have been some issues between the two. I don't know. Again, that will all come out.

I expect we might see some lawyers in a courtroom at some point. Then, all the "games" get real.

CW

 

... e.g., under a yellow light condition, common law rules of the road become applicable, to all organized motor sport; the very act of a yellow flag caution condition implies, ipso facto, reapplication and applicability of common law. Under any and all circumstance, blame is apportioned for altercations or accidents to any motorist having accelerated their vehicle, under a yellow light condition -- asj.

 

... the 10 fairy tales of organized motor sport (e.g., ad nausium, you will hear this, repeatedly, in their arguments; over, and over, and over; their arguments always fall, into at least one of these categories):

1). "...organized motor sport is close, tight knit family! [true]
-- e.g., yes, in fact, it is indeed a close, tight knit family, of scoundrels, cheats, and pent-up psychotic hot-tempered head-cases who lie wait, for the first opportunity to nerf you, straight into the Armco for their amusement and entertainment, then run you down for good measure, next time around, on the impending caution lap;

2). "...the race drivers of organized motor sport are elite athletes!" [sic]
-- e.g., drivers are merely technicians; race drivers are no more athletes than common motorists, merchant marines, crane operators, airline pilots, train engineers, assembly line workers or drone pilots;

3). "...the race drivers of organized motor sport are conferred upon by God, superhuman reflex!" [false]
-- e.g., corollary of their masters of the universe hypothesis; most can't catch a Frisbee, much less throw one; slower and weaker than any garden variety chimpanzee, a race driver's reflex is not statistically significant, from any other human being;

4). "...the race drivers of organized motor sport are conferred upon by God, superhuman ability!" [false]
-- e.g., though they may be skilled or practiced, scant few are truly talented;

5). "...race drivers of organized motor sport are conferred upon by God superhuman intelligence!" [false]
-- e.g., as you can plainly see, time and time again, most lack for intelligence sufficient to grasp rudimentary crash forensics, much less common law;

6). "...people of organized motor sport are warm, wonderful people!" [false]
-- e.g., they're bullies and thugs; there's nothing they love more, smiling in your face while helping themselves to your money, and helping you crash your car;

7). "...their death was instantaneous; those spectators never felt a thing!" [false]
-- e.g., car accidents, death is never instantaneous; stand close enough, you can hear them crying;

8). "...he died doing what he loved!" [false]
-- e.g., most oftentimes the driver died, but for no good reason than the guy behind him, doing what "he" truly loved; most oftentimes the driver died, because somebody on his crew rigged the car, or made a stupid mistake;

9). "...organized motor sport is good for the local economy!" [they're lying to you, straight through their teeth]
-- e.g., no longer a proving ground for automobile evolution, organized motor sport performs no beneficial social function; extractive, organized motor sport constitutes a drain upon your economy; organized motor sport creates no social surplus;

10). "...we're the masters of the universe, and nobody outside organized motor sport could ever fully understand how such an accident could ever have happened!"
-- e.g., ever notice, how people of organized motor sport are always right? How everything was always "unavoidable?" How accidents are never attributable, to any one thing? How organized motor sport maintains status, power and prestige deflecting criticism from itself by diffusing accountability? How organized motor sport is never directly to blame, for anything? - asj.

 

Please take time to read this post I wrote earlier. Tony did not make collision with the front or right rear of his car. Ward was not standing there in defiance but is sprinting at Tony, then makes a final lunge arms outstretched. Ward reached out to initiate contact with Tony. Its pretty clear from the physics of Tony's car and how its sprung mass acted, and the fact that you see Ward's helmet move along with Tony's car prior to Ward being near the rear of Tony's car.

Tony's car is sliding into the frame with suspension loading and attitude of hitting the brakes. You may not be aware that these cars have three wheel brakes.

I suspect you either have not watched the video, or are reading any posts here.

 

You are trying very hard to bait and convince others into believing your view is the correct one so I ask "what exactly is your agenda here?" You would not write a short story like your last post unless you had something at stake or you just cannot accept a different opinion, view or reality. Please stop playing judge and jury.

 

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Watch the 17 minute mark as yellow lights are clearly visible, as car's slide sideways and collide under caution.
http://youtu.be/xJphoizVWmk

Btw, this NY track doesn't have yellow lights. It has a flag man at the starting line.

You are not taking into account - the short period of time from a yellow flag to Tony passing by again, a period of just a few seconds. You are not taking into account that a yellow in sprint car racing means the cars slow down to a speed in excess of most posted speed limits, and that sprint cars only stop when wrecked, a red flag, or maybe a dead person.

You are not taking into account that Ward is actively running at Tony's car.

You are not taking into account that Tony is not any further up the track than other car's that passed Ward.

I suggest you take some time to acquaint yourself with physics of sprung and unsprung mass of race cars and observe Tony's car.

I also suggest(not really) you find a sharp curve on a road at night, and try jumping on cars when they are right up to you by surprise. Points if you can punch the driver through the windshield while you are sitting on the hood. Somehow, I think you believe this happened on a mile long brightly lit straightaway 20 minutes after Ward wrecked himself. Not a sharp corner at night with another driving who's action in post review indicate they intend contact, but given that Ward was looking at Tony, Tony could not expect Ward to be so foolish.

 

ASJ There are plenty of cases where driver's had dash cams, a pedestrian walked in front of their vehicle, pedestrian sue-ed driver, but pedestrian went to jail for insurance fraud as it was clear the pedestrian saw the vehicle, and intentionally stepped into the vehicles path. The last frames of Ward on his feet show him clearly looking at Tony's car, and clearly running into its path.

 

You have been trolling this forum since '10 and only have 41 post with no actual contribution to the forum as a whole until you found a stage for your agenda.

 

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LOL!

Liar liar pants on fire!

 

WOW! There was dashcam footage on Tony Stewart's car!!!! OH MY GOSH, HE THOUGHT HE DELETED IT BUT THE POLICE RESURRECTED THE FOOTAGE AND IT DIDN'T DELETE!!!! Its shocking, you can clearly see Tony turn the steering wheel right into Ward, and see Ward sprawl out and bounce of Tony's roll cage!!!! I found it on a russian website, beware, you can see the sheet metal dent when they hit. It also wasn't into the tire, but into the roll cage and body of Tony's car.

http://youtu.be/sSYT6V825gE?t=1m58s

 

+1. Perfect example of a Forum Troll.

 

when you finish eating your possum you need to watch that again, at the end of his impact his head is still protected in his helmet....not crushed under a tire

 

Assjoseph just insinuated that everybody who doesn't see things his way is an "idiot" (see above). Is this not grounds for some kind of temporary ban of this ******* troll? He's on my ignore list, but his asinine, absurd, and self-indulgent posts still show up when he's quoted. If we can't get him banned, maybe if we just ignore (and stop quoting) him, he'll go away. Trolls thrive on attention. That's their whole raison d'être.

 

It happens, no big deal.