Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Two, three weeks as far as I heard... But next week will be interesting too.

 

Welcome back Jim. The site is better when you're around. I hope things are well for you and your family.

-F

 

Not sure been a pro or an amature, I myself probably will do few hot laps and then I'll calm down and relax and enjoy driving it few laps more.

After all buying such car a great everyday joy not just on track.

Mbn

 

German magazine Sport Auto published the numbers for 918 WS that they recorded in a wind tunnel... If you search the web for it, I'm sure you'll find it. There were scans on Germancarforum last I checked.

 

Sport Auto tested 918 in wind tunnel with wind speed of 200kph.

Front axle downforce 56kg,
rear axle downforce 89kg.

 

the nuances of the h2h was discussed plenty here..you may have to go back 20 pages or so to read them. a lot of info resides 'between the lines' and behind the scenes discussion by EVO staff. you are misinterpreting what they've written. end result, 918 handily the better car...beat P1 in every area except 11/11ths in the "theatre" department (but also in saying 918 is most exciting to drive, and in a few ways even more so than P1)

918 went around Anglesey 1.5 seconds faster than P1.

 

Highly doubtful that we'll get all the info we'd like to see. But 918 engineers were very crafty in blending mechanical grip and pure aero assistance. The result speaks for itself. Only Sport Auto has done measurements so far. More or less in line with Porsche's claim of 'only' ~650lbs max at 180mph. Worth remembering that P1 only achieves 1300lbs max in Race mode, at sub 3 inch ride height. The 918's greater stability vs P1, combined with extreme adjustability of balance, giving it upper hand on the road and at the track. In the high speed sections, ie. the downforce area's, 918's adequate aero performance combined with inherent chassis grip, is why P1 is unable to 'run away' from it in any semblance.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Your take on the article and another's can and will vary. "You are misinterpreting what they've written" is assuming that YOUR take on the article is the only correct one.

 

As I said it's aerodynamic efficiency that tell the story. It's also down force at say 120mph that is very important for the turns.

 

There's was lots of chat about the straight liner figures. None, that I recall (please feel free to find the relevant posts as I can't) about the peak get/corner speed.

My main point about the EVO article was that it was a pretty poor effort and too vague on the hard facts that they clearly have. If they do publish the numbers then I hope they have a good justification for not including them in the article.

 

Porsche were really proud of their 4 wheel steering and torque vectoring. They rely on downforce less than the p1 and laf which is working really well for them

 

Actually I was asking for clarification on the statement that the 918 was as fast in the high speed bends as the P1.

I raised this as the only metric, I have seen anyway, of corner speed/peak g shows the P1 is faster/corners harder. I then asked if anyone had any idea what the 0.3G (0.28) might relate to in mph/kph as I have no idea.

Surely a wetbtrack would favour the 4wd car (greater mech grip)? Environmental conditions, could make a difference but I suspect they'd be minor unless it was really high speed, and changeable, winds.

I have discussed been the articles, the EVO and Top gear, in my post. I see now I missed the word EVO from the second paragraph. In the article they say they did the road section after the track work. They then describe the P1 as "seemingly invincible" on the track. This is somewhat at odds to the insiders claiming the 918 is 1.5 seconds faster on the track, they do say it doesn't runaway from the 918; again a vague statement. The article is written in a very vague manor when it comes to comparing performance directly. I hope they do publish the numbers but I don't understand why they haven't already. I am quite happy that they prefer the 918 as a better all rounder but find this a little at odds with the logic they employed in the 650S vs 458 Speciale test.

I'd hardly describe myself as a "P1 stalwart" and the reviews, opinions etc on all three of these cars have very little impact on me as I will never (baring lottery win) be in a position to own one. However, if you think EVO has any interest in doing McLaren favours in their reviews you missed them never having a McLaren win a group test, the Porsches in almost every issue, and Porsches 9 wins in 16 years of EVO car of the year and 8 other top 5 placings. If EVO has a bias it doesn't lay in Woking.

 

Napolis, all this talk about downforce numbers for these hypercars is pretty meaningless. If they were 800 kgs with fluids and slick tires then it would be beneficial... But they're 1500+ kgs and must run street legal tires and have reasonable ride height, thus it's just PR nonsense.

 

If you take them to a track day it's not. In P 4/5 C at 4.5 inches of clearance and road legal tires you can feel the down force working on a track. At 55MPH on the highway? Less so..

http://vimeo.com/104330457

 

Isn't it, "she's so NOT heavy"!!??

SV

 

In this case true.

 

oh behave. why don't you drop the EVO folks a line and ask them about their 'off the record' chat's that didn't go in the article. THAT's what I'm going off of. If only you knew.

 

correct. 918 is about the whole package working together.

 

true true.

 

as was mentioned. a lot of effort went into praising the winner without marginalizing the 'loser'. there is a reason why it went down like that. perhaps EVO will publically elaborate when they are good and ready.

 

man, I love the car..,.

 

I still think Nissan kind of proved that for road cars mechanical grip makes much more of a difference than aero. Not that aero doesn't, but the gains you can get out of system such as the ones in the GTR and the 918 are bigger than what you would from any sort of aero magic.

Complex aero is for proper race cars, not road cars.. at least this is how I see it at the moment.

I think that the 918 will probably end up being the fastest out of the 3 around many tracks.. which is amazing considering the weight.

 

whatever they're doing, it's working. as per the weight, now that real cars have been weighed, 918 is ~200lbs heavier than P1, and 'should' be ~300lbs heavier than LaF. Nowhere near the 600lbs advantage P1 was thought to have when propaganda war raged hot and heavy many moons ago.

 

Doesn't the 4ws in the 918 impact on lateral g vectors' readings? Given all wheels turn in the same direction at high speeds, doesn't part of what would have been recorded as lateral g effectively become deceleration g, like in braking? And doesn't this system need less downforce because the back wheels are never perfectly perpendicular to the centrifugal acceleration as they are in normal cars, but rather follow a different path with less lateral acceleration on the tyres themselves?

Apologies if it doesn't make much sense

 

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