Correct Webers for a PF Coupe?

36dcl/3

 

Lightweight carbs "L". Black

John Hadjuk knows

 

So, the "L" of DCL stand for lightweight?

john

 

Much of the Weber designations is based on guessing, but DCL is believed to stand for doppio corpo leggera; a double body in light alloy (=aluminum).

 

Why black ?

Should they not be unpainted ?

 

DCL's were painted to protect the aluminum from corrosion.

 

Very interesting but I think the early cars were supplied with unpainted webers.

The 1958 250 Granturismo brochure has a picture of the 250GT engine and this clearly shows the Webers unpainted in common with the other engine illustrations before that date. My own 36/DCL/3 number 1183 is unpainted and I see from another post by Mr Vardanian that his weber number 1058 is also unpainted.

The subsequent later brochure for the PF Coupe has an engine illustration and the webers appear to be black although it is difficult to see from the Merritt print

Looking at pictures of the competition cars that used the 36/DCL/3 the vast majority have unpainted Webers as are the DCS and DCZ variants.

The question is, when did weber start painting their carbs ?
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Inside plug PF coupe 1159GT is unrestored. The carbs are painted black.

Cheers Jim

 

This DCL carb paint seems to be one of those Ferrari inconsistencies. I like the look of the black and when I restore mine I'll likely paint them, but looking at the pictures from mid 1980's when my car (1381GT) was being disassembled for restoration by the previous owner, the carbs are unpainted. I realize this doesn't prove anything. But, I can see Dykes point of protecting a more delicate alloy that might have been used for the DCL type.

Here are a couple of pictures of mine as it is today.

john
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Thank you John. Also interesting to see that your weber number is lower than mine but your car has a later engine number. Clearly Ferrari were not using the FIFO stock control system.

I also wonder if painting was a cheaper option to polishing rather than protection.

Kim

 

Were they otherwise polished, Kim?

john

 

I am guessing but I assume that Weber would have die cast the carburettors and consequently they would require finishing to de-burr and produce the finish you can see in an unpainted example. They are not fine polished but I suspect painting was a lot less labour intensive then what they did.

As for protection, your picture demonstrates that they stand up to the test of time without a coat of paint. However, I do agree they look smart with one

 

Just two comments before this whole thing gets crazy:

1. Only DCL's were painted by Weber. All other versions, DCF,DCZ.DCS. DFI, etc. were unpainted by Weber.

2. Be careful when making observations, as realistically NONE of these cars are still untouched since they were new. It is very hard to tell the difference between 50 and 40 year old paint.

 

Noted but still not convinced.

1. What unpainted weber is shown in the 1958 250 Grandturismo brochure

2. I do not believe the numerous unpainted 36/DCL started off black even after 50 years

Kim

 

A few comments:

The 250 Granturismo catalog shows an illustration, and it appears to be a rendered for highlights; it is not definitive.

I suggest Kim that you go to some of the better books and you will see clear evidence that Tom and Dyke are correct. Look at Graham Gauld's book on Modena Memories (I forget the exact title) and go to page 33. There is a clear and crisp period photo of a mechanic putting the final assembly touches on what is a an inside-plug 128C (or 128D) motor. There you will see without doubt the black 36DCLs at the Factory. You will also see that on occasion they used what look like light gray spark plug wires and you can see the plug boots too. One of the best photos for the finishes on the 128C or D. Even the grain character of the wrinkle finish.

Look at George Carrick's California book, several photos showing the black Webers.

Look at Prunet's book on the Road cars, I think it's in the 410SA section, Factory period picture of a 410 motor next to 250 motor on the floor.

In 50+ years these carburators were most likely cleaned a few times and the cleaner bath will often dissolve/strip the paint. So don't trust photos either from the 70's or 80's either as definitive in any way.

 

According to my observations little over half of Webers in PF Coupes I have pictures of are unpainted. There does not seem to be a clear pattern, but it seems black Webers were more common in mid 1st series and late 2nd series.

 

I think Webers are sand cast and no surface finishing was performed (except mild blasting).

 

A set of dirty black carbs untouched since 1978. Patrick Ottis told me black carbs were correct for a series one PF.

Cheers Jim
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Interesting thread when you look at the large number of weber carburettors that were produced and supplied unpainted it makes you wonder why the DCL was singled out for special treatment

 

In my experience with early Ferraris, Fiat 8V and Siata V8 three types were used:
36DCF3 sand cast finely in "Anticorodal aluminum"
36DCZ3 die cast in "Zamac" or Zinc alloy
36DCL3 pressure die cast aluminum
Only the 36DCL(and40DCL) were painted.

 

Thanks. The 40DCL used on the Aurelia was also painted. I wonder if the die casting was a factor in why they were painted when so many other webers were not

I am still not convinced that all of the unpainted DCL's you can see on Coupes as well as Berlinettas and Spyders are a result of restoration.

Kim

 

the L was for lightweight, thus aluminum. possibly painted for anticorrosion purposes.
ed

 

May I add that the 40DCZ 5, used on Lancia Aurelias, was also painted, as was the later 40DCL 5.

On a related note, I have a 40DCL A3 (yes, painted), and am trying to ascertain what it was mounted on. Anyone have any ideas?