I wondered about that......I know they can't use engines as they develop them during the year, but can they be developing for next year?
Exactly, Mclaren ok seemingly down in the dumps right now, but a tweak here and there, and they could be back in it big time, dismiss them at your own peril IMO. Big shot driver, new power plant, big shot Ron D back at the helm, new impetus, and lets face it as Merc currently supply their engine, they wouldn't want them to be a threat now would they, well that's unless your married to Toto Wolff, hell now what on earth can I be implying....
I'm not sure why Honda are setting themselves up like this, they have a Himalayan expectation set in front of them now which may be masked by Mclaren's lack of performance which I believe they will still be lacking most of 2015. My eyes are glazed in anticipation.
Agreed about 2015, as I said dismiss them at your own risk. Merc didn't exactly do it overnight did they, and IMO Merc bought a ready made winning car with Brawn at the helm and failed, until Ham jumped on board that is hahaha
If they can't be developed off season then the newbie will have a tremendous advantage. IMHO the entire engine freeze rule is a joke.
Words are cheap and they need to grab a few headlines. Oh, well, at least they´re showing a positive attitude.
They are under development freeze but next year the only thing they can't alter are (I think) bore/stroke...almost everything is free game (before the season starts). In the coming years it'll get stricter and stricter. I expect Renault, Ferrari and Honda to be very close to Mercedes power wise.
I agree many will catch on to Mercedes' tricks next season with new developments, although it won't be immediate. Give them a few races worth of data to figure out their setups.
Changing the F1 engines of today July 8, 2014 by Joe Saward A lot of folk have asked about what manufacturers can and cannot do to improve their engines for 2015. This has been addressed by the FIA in its efforts to control costs in the course of the life cycle of the new formula, with a series of restrictions over a seven-year period. These are designed to allow development but keep costs down. It was deemed to be too risky to freeze engines from the start as it could have led to one manufacturer, whose initial product was superior, achieving a dominant position from the outset and so it was decided to create a schedule of allowable changes to stop wild spending each year. To achieve this the regulators came up with the idea of dividing the parts of F1 power units into three categories, ranked 1, 2 and 3. The total ranking for the parts in an F1 power unit is 66. From this total was derived a system of tokens that allow for change. If you redesign your pistons, for example, it will cost you two tokens, while the ignition system is worth only one point. Each year, each manufacturer will be allowed to choose what parts of the engine they wish to develop, based on these tokens, with the annual number of the reducing each year. For 2015, therefore, there will be 32 tokens available, which means that almost half of the components in an engine can be changed. Each year the number of tokens will reduce by around nine percent so that by 2018 there will be only 15 changes allowed each year, which will mean only 23 percent of the parts can be developed. Thus, there are increasing financial restrictions but there is still much development possible. As a result, over time the engines should become more closely-matched. New manufacturers can still come in and are not really handicapped because they will inevitably hire staff who know the answers to lots of the pitfalls, so they will not be greatly disadvantaged.
^^ pretty much my understanding. Does explain the 'weighting' thing too that I asked about back in this thread; http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/f1/455268-myth-engine-freeze.html So, they're all, not just Honda, beavering away on their units for next season ahead of the homologation deadline early next year. Actually makes a little sense I guess....... Cheers, Ian
Whereas the current engine manufacturers can only change half the components for next year.Honda can have a clean sheet design.Which may give them a slight edge. Plus Honda are the best when it comes to fuel economy.Restricted fuel flow rates will play into their hands - That's just my opinion
You may be right..... However, by my reading, for next year they can change a lot more than 50%.... Here's the details from the regs again - Way down the bottom it says "8% of PU frozen"..... There's not much they can't change next year if they want. Cheers, Ian Image Unavailable, Please Login
+1. I am a McLaren Honda guy and I don't see how they have a chance next year. Best bet is 1st year development then get SV or FA or LH to take JB's spot. I personally don't think JB has done that great this year but I see him coming back for 1 more year.
Well you will be pleased to know, RD appears to have a sense of humour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz1FN8ldZFg
So please explain to me how this saves a single dollar? What will be happening is: Before the teams cash in a token, they will have a development engine and they will try changing this and that, do dyno runs and work out what they should change. Then they will submit to the FIA that they want to change X after spending 3 months in the engineering room and on the dyno burning huge $'s. Just silly, silly stuff ... there is absolutely NO cost saving from the engine freeze. Pete
+1 It's actually the complete opposite. It'll cost a LOT more with this whole non development thing. They can't upgrade the power so have to spend money elsewhere to make the car go faster (read: VERY expensive aerodynamics).
With available budgets to support they will in many cases do both. One cannot be done alone it seems.
And the money they spend on aeros will be of little benefit to the mass produced auto, as opposed to engine development, which could be of tremendous real world benefit IMHO. I can see why the vw group doesn't want to commit to f1.
