I too think all that can be said has been said in this thread. If the purpose of this thread was to educate forum members, I think there is more than enough information here to do that on both sides. If the purpose was to call out a sponsor, that has been done too. There is more than enough fodder here to satisfy the detractors and supporters. I vote that this thread be closed in the absence of new or compelling information.
header box too? recent? if so, then I think the legal argument would be fair game, as brought up a few times. do we know where they make exhaust and exit pipes? I think focus of conversation has been headers.
Well, post a pic of the box. From what we know, saying made in the USA for the 430 headers would be both inaccurate and possibly in violation of the regulations. Btw, It's not semantics...it's the law. And the law is fairly clear and was referenced earlier in this thread. Again, this has nothing to do with the quality of the products, rather how they are marketed. Read the thread. The standard for made in the USA is very high and products that contain foreign sourced materials that are essential to the product don't meet it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rob, I'm disappointed you think it's a witch hunt and and only fueled by haters. To be perfectly clear, I don't hate fabspeed. While I have decided, mostly in light of this thread, not to use their products on my cars, I have given some thought to buying their products for my brother's Porsche as a gift. So I'm not a hater but I have posted my thoughts here and have challenged their marketing (on this site and to our community). Someone above said they thought the thread had accomplished all it should and advocated closure (censure and movement to the bottom of the site - to be clear - so not a casual thought IMHO). That said, my goal here was to attempt to get fabspeed to be clear and comprehensive with our community and for you to give thought to the standards by which you decide and police who markets to us and how (and by extension, who you make money from). I'm sure both you and fabspeed have gotten my point in those matters. And I'm equally sure with both of your responses to that...nothing has changed. Got it. So, I guess I'm okay with censuring the thread now too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There's no witch hunt here. As a real manufacturer of products that I can accurately state are MADE IN USA, I'm offended when that label is used without merit. I don't care who it is. IF the 430 header box has MADE IN USA on it, and that's a false claim, then it pisses me off. Fabspeed should either explain why they think they can use that label on a product that sure seems to have a large content of imported components, or explain that they no longer use imported components. It's not semantics, it's bull**** if they are unwilling to answer. Don't care if their product is solid gold, if the gold came from overseas, it should say so. That's the ONLY issue here. Product quality doesn't seem to be at issue, domestic content does. D
so if anyone really wants to keep digging, figure out legality of having "Made in USA" on the 430 boxes. I'm not going to assume anything, because there could be a dozen answers, but I'm curious. guess I can ask.
Rob. In this case it probably is semantics to an extent. The product doesn't say Made in USA, the outer carton does. Certainly most folks would then assume that the contents are Made in USA, it's the logical conclusion, not sure if the FTC would see it that way, and only one way to find out. Ask them, which I'll do today. Dave
FWIW, if they are indeed putting made in the USA labels on 430 boxes, of which the contents thereof certainly appear to be made abroad and, at best, tweaked at their factory, it would certainly appear from my reading of the law to be illegal.The laws on the subject have been repeatedly posted here and clearly define the circumstances under which the Made in USA label can be used. In my humble opinion, It would be laughable to go into court and claim that the made in the usa label referred only to the box containing an item and not the contents thereof and such a claim would probably just open them up to additional litigation. Again, not taking sides either way, but I think it is important to keep the rules clearly in mind if this thread is to continue. Just my .02
Contacted the FTC about the subject, we'll see what they have to say, if anything going forward. If I get any info from them, I'll post it here. D
Dave, The FTC website itself posts the rules of the game. I don't know why we are suddenly going round and round on this issue? The bottom line is that there are serious suspicions regarding the origin of their product, but only Fabspeed and their suppliers know the truth. Unless there is an investigation into the matter, an admission or some smoking gun beyond what is posted in this thread, it is evident that we are at a stalemate. Conducting a review of the plainly stated law is just masturbation at this point. This case is what it is. Fabspeed is either mislabeling or their not, people can either care or not. There is more than enough evidence in this thread to support those who think they are misleading the public, and there are more than enough fabspeed clients who swear by the company, their product and their customer support. This is beating a dead horse with another dead horse at this point!
I understand your argument, however you are not comparing apples to apples. The corvette is built in the USA, on US soil, with US citizens being paid $35 per hour to assemble it, regardless of where the parts come from. Is that the case with the Fabspeed headers?
The difference is that those who are contesting the "Made in USA" issue are debating the issue at hand, whereas the Fabspeed supporters are promoting the quality of the product. The standard response from the backers is "who cares where it is made, they make a good product". I'd like to see where those that are debating the "Made in USA" label say their product stinks because it is not made in the USA? This thread is not a topic of contesting Fabspeed's quality, but rather where the product is made in relation to where Fabspeed claims it is. Until the people backing Fabspeed understand this, then indeed it will be a dead horse beating contest.
Going back to this original post. Who thinks Stefvan didn't know the answer before he asked? Stefvan isn't a troll, but if he knew, this is certainly a trolling thread. Which threads go this long that aren't trolling? The main reason for that is trollers never want the thread to die, when it starts dying, they will continue to bring it up.
Regardless of its origin, in the end a fair point has been made. The hardest thing for some people is knowing when they have won. IMHO, whether the 430 headers were actually "made in the USA" as defined by Federal law was established with a degree of certainty---at least for an online forum! Similarly, it was claimed that at least until June of this year, Fabspeed was claiming those headers to be made in the USA on their packaging. I don't know what more the protagonists could possibly want. If sponsors have learned anything from this board, it is to tread very lightly in threads such as this. There will be no admission or clarification. Instead, by continuing to belabor the same points, the best arguments are buried on page whatever of this thread, and we are left with countless pages arguing semantics, etc. What else do you guys want from this thread? It's not just Fabspeed that benefits from this threads closure, it's the protagonists too IMHO.
Since it quite obvious that Fabspeed will no longer enter this thread to clarify/acknowledge/admit, then perhaps the best solution should be to lock it down...and throw away the key.
they have done a bunch of clarifying and posting, they probably have more words in this thread than anyone. were they clear or beating around the bush? I will just say all the info is in there, they just shouldn't have diluted it. at this point I think Fabspeed did the right thing, they tried to post, but with users like you continuing to post "Fabspeed will no longer enter this thread to clarify/acknowledge/admit" I think it is proof they handled this correctly. if someone just wants to fight to fight, it isn't worth the fight.
I think this thread needs more american boobies: http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xfa1/t51.2885-15/10598558_1455887828029365_309383540_n.jpg
Fabspeed have answered, made in the USA. http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-boxster-chat/99450-how-s-made-fabspeed-motorsport-sport-headers.html
Exposing a vendor (in this case a sponsor of the forum) who is misleading their customers is not trolling.
Rob's walking a tightrope right now and I get that. But I agree his use of that term in this thread has itself kinda crossed a line if you ask me. Nothing but love and empathy, but don't like that term being pointed in my general direction. Consistently holding poor vendors accountable in appropriate threads in appropriate forums with accurate information is not trolling, nor is it hate, or an axe to grind, bone to pick or anything else that places blame on the vic. Hell, the only apology I've received from them came from a former employee who'd been fired after being injured in their facility, fell in a bay and broke his back. Name was Jeremy. He called me and told me they fired him right after he was injured and he was really sorry for his part in the way I'd been treated. But that's not a fabspeed apology now is it? Is this post trolling? Is this an inappropriate venue or thread for such feedback? Am I a poor member of the forum for bringing it up?
Could be, but they certainly don't have the most POSTS in this thread. Image Unavailable, Please Login
