Socata TBM-700 Unresponsive Over Cuba

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Saw this over lunch.

Prayers for those all on board
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They're probably dead. Sounds similar to what happened to Payne Stewart.

 

The same thing happened with a Cirrus last week.

It was in DC airspace I think.

 

Appears to have crashed in Jamaica.

 

Radio news said 'TBM700'

But it's the first delivered US TBM 900, it appears. He was Pres of TBM Owners Assn.

N900KN


Daher-Socata Delivers 1st TBM 900, Plans U.S. Expansion | Aviation International News

 

Appears to be spot on.

Terrible news.

 

I admit that it is way to early to assign cause to this situation, but it brings up a question - I have had it my head ever since the Payne Stewart accident:

Should General Aviation planes like this one (which I presume are single pilot certified) also by FAA requirements have the pilot wearing oxygen in case of pressure malfunction?

Very sad, condolences to the family and people around this pilot.

 

Apparently then, the plane was just over five months old. Tragic.

 

Good question. If it was pressurization, I think these only go to 30k or so. That should give him a minute or two to get the oxygen on, or start a decent to an altitude he can function at.
A shame.

Art

 

It is required above 35,000 (unless you have two pilots and meet certain equipment requirements, in which case it is required above 41,000 feet). These guys were at 28,000 feet. Under 135, it is pretty much required above 35,000 feet.

Honestly, though, most people ignore those rules. If it was required at 25,000 feet, most people would ignore that as well. In the case of the Payne Stewart accident, they should have put the masks on at 35,000 feet, if they were still conscious.

In this case, if you listen to the ATC recording, he knew he had a problem, asked for a descent, was told to only go down to FL250, and that was it.

Start listening about 4:10, and about 6:50 you can start to hear his voice change:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kg...2014-1400Z.mp3

(The accident aircraft is N900KN).

RIP.

 

Would not have helped here. He was at 25,000' apparently its reported. Quick donning masks take 3-4 seconds to put on and they are right by my elbow in the Mustang. This should never be a problem even at 35,000 feet as you have 30 - 40 seconds of useful consciousness. Above 350 you are required to have a mask on single pilot.

 

Maybe we need a new thread outside the memorial for this pilot/owner...

But - the above on how long you have consciousness at various altitudes avoids one central question:

WOULD THE PILOT HAVE AWARENESS THAT HE IS LOSING OXYGEN, OR WOULD HE JUST SLOWLY LOSE CONSCIOUSNESS WITHOUT HAVING THE COGNISCENSE TO KNOW REALLY WHAT HAS GONE WRONG?

Here I am assuming that this kind of loss of cabin pressure is not hull catastrophic or obvious, but rather a slow and gradual one due to pressurization malfunction.

 

If he had been aware of what was going on, he would have put his mask on.

He knew something was wrong, based on his radio calls, but either he didn't put the mask on, or it wasn't set correctly. From the audio, it didn't sound like he had a mask on during any of his transmissions.

 

Everyone's hypoxia symptoms are different. In the USAF we went to an altitude chamber every 5 years so we could experience, recognize, and correct (IE don O2 masks etc) our own unique hypoxia symptoms. Civilian pilots never do this, I'm wondering if it shouldn't be a requirement.

Also do any of you guys know, do these smaller pressurized planes have a cabin altitude warning system?

 

That is why the military requires periodic altitude chamber rides, so aircrew members can recognize their hypoxia symptoms.

 

All civilian aircraft that are pressurized have a cabin altitude alert system that typically sounds an aural and visual warning at 10,000 ft CA. The typical procedure is to treat this as an emergency and begin a quick descent while donning oxygen masks. Just like th airlines the items on the checklist are to be performed from memory in order to pass a check ride for the type rating in that aircraft (for aircraft that require a type rating) and demonstrate proficiency each and every year during recurrent. There is no such thing as "quietly going to sleep" because of increasing cabin altitude, the EICAS alerting system prevents this.

 

I assume you mean "decreasing" instead of "increasing" - but if the EICAS always prevents this there a lot of accidents to be explained - very likely including this one.

 

Both Glazer and his wife are/were pilots.

He had over 5,000 hours in TBM's alone.

As someone said, he was a FL250.

Should have been familiar.

What if it was a sudden pressure loss?

 

Lots of questions - but if it were indeed all that sudden, we would expect he would have noticed it and said something over the radio. Just lowering the flight level from 28 to 25 would really do nothing for a pressurization loss, so I am assuming that he(they) had no idea that there was a depressurization.

 

Sudden pressure loss is much easier to recognize and is usually accompanied by warning lights. Still plenty of time to put on oxygen masks except at very high altitude. You really do get snow in the cockpit when that happens at high altitude.

Also, screw ATC when something like that happens. The call should have been "Lost cabin pressure, descending to 14,000 ft." and let ATC worry about how to make that work.

 

I meant increasing cabin ALTITUDE, sorry.

As to accidents that are unexplainable, yep. **** happens.

 

At 250 he should have had plenty of time to get to a lower altitude, even without oxygen I an emergency descent. Really strange.

 

Got a '404 Not Found'...

Take your word for it.

 

Absolutely

 

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kgso/ZTL-GSO-Sep-05-2014-1400Z.mp3

Very sad. He didn't use the "E" word, but said 'we need lower'.