Anyone own a hangar?

I love planes but rarely post here. I recently started exploring getting a pilots license and have taken a lesson. I have a long way to go. But one thing I noticed was the hangar situation at my local airport, which is a very busy small plane airport. There are many different types of hangars with varying degrees of amenities and they're all full and there are waiting lists for space (I was told).

So, I though about looking into buying a hangar and renting it out to planes and maybe using part of it as my office and to keep a car or two there. That said, I am only now starting my research and I know so little about planes and plane storage that it's not even funny. Therefore, I am turning to my winged friends on Fchat for help.

Can anyone here tell me what makes a good hangar from a mediocre one, what kind of rental fees they feel are acceptable, what kind of turnover they see, what are hangar "roommates" like to share with, what basic arrangements are people accustomed to, and what sort of thing do I really need to know that I probably don't. Any stories or lessons would be great, too. Thanks in advance.

 

Are you talking about Front Range?

Rocky Mountain?

Have a friend that keeps his cars in a hangar at Front Range and his planes in a hangar at Rocky Mountain. He lives in east Denver.

 

Centennial. But I can be flexible.

 

Are there any hangars for sale at Centennial? Or are you thinking of building? Do you own the land on that airport, or lease it?

How much hassle are you willing to take on? Are you willing to have employees? Your own fuel farm?

If you can find a hangar that you can buy, and then lease it to one of the existing operators on the field, that's probably what I would suggest.

 

That is the plan. That's just about the only thing that I was considering.

 

Before you go too far, be sure to confirm from the controlling entity (county/private/state/feds) what you are/are not allowed to do in hangar space at the airport.

Our local airport, controlled by the local port commission, is very strict about policing non-aircraft-related activities in your privately-owned hangar! They won't allow me to store/work on cars in the building, unless the bulk of the space is dedicated to "flyable aircraft", and the car-related activity is "temporary". I'm now negotiating to buy a derelict taildragger just so I can put my cars & boats in there….!

 

On most airports you will never really 'own' the hangar. Typically, the airport sponsor (whomever 'owns' the airport such as an authority, the city/county, etc.) retains ownership of the land and you lease ground for a period of time upon which you build a hangar (or whatever other improvement). At the end of the lease term, title to the improvement(s) automatically reverts to the airport. Even if you find fee simple land (which you could own into perpetuity) adjacent to an airport, you will need to have an airport use agreement to access the taxiways and runways. These are commonly referred to as "through the fence agreements" and the FAA is not fond of them, so they are becoming few and far between (but there are a few at Centennial). Any hangar you lease, as someone already mentioned, will most likely be restricted to aviation use - this is a current hot topic in aviation. The FAA recently ruled that you cannot even build a 'kit' airplane in a hangar since that act can be done off airport. Basically, the FAA says that hangars are for functional airplanes. If the airport receives federal funding (which virtually all do), they are subject to federal grant assurances which are quite specific.

 

I forgot to mention that when you operate on an airport, you will also be subject to the airport's minimum standards. So, for example, if you buy a hangar with the intention of renting space to aircraft, you'll be classified as a commercial operator and will need to comply with a myriad of requirements (hours of operation, services provided, staffing, insurance, equipment, etc.) including paying a portion of your revenue (a concession fee) to the airport.

 

Here is a proposed FAA rule making going on with hangars on tax dollar use airports: https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/07/22/2014-17031/policy-on-the-non-aeronautical-use-of-airport-hangars

 

So far the responses have been regarding publicly owned airports, but you may want to consider looking at a privately owned airport. I assume you'll want to hangar typically sized single engine GA airplanes such as Cessna's and Piper's rather than Jets, which require a whole lot more space.

Privately owned airports are typically much less restrictive than publicly owned airports and you can basically do whatever you want, or rather whatever has been written into the deed restrictions on the property - think HOA.

There are a handful of private airports around what's called the Denver Class B airspace. You can find those on this sectional:
VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts

And you can look up the different airports to see what they're like and find contact info on Airnav:
AirNav: 18V - Platte Valley Airpark

As for what makes a good hangar, I would say access, parking, and amenities. If you fly a lot, you may want to be near the runway. You'll need a place for you and your tenants to park; you don't want that to be on the other side of the airport. You may not even want to be outside. And you'll want a bathroom! Smaller "T" style hangars typically don't have bathrooms. Larger hangars might, but not all airports plumb their hangars, especially the older ones.

Rents can vary greatly, so you'll have to check with the locals before running your numbers against rental returns. Pilots are basically cheap - none of us wants to pay anything for hangar space, but we all begrudgingly do because we have to. Just remember that when you're collecting your rent! Where I am in the Dallas area, you can find hangars from $150/mo - $500/mo and up depending upon type of airplane, how "good" the hangar is, etc.

Good luck! And definitely learn to fly, but just be careful. Once you get hooked, cars may become less relevant in your life.

 

FAA Gets an Earful about New Hangar-use Policy | Aviation International News

First through-the-fence and now this. Any airport that receives federal funds could be impacted.

 

Doesn't NoDoubt own a hangar?

 

I wouldn't get into this until I was eminently buying an airplane. Of course, I wouldn't even take flying lessons unless I was going to buy an airplane. There are a million silly rules and regs in aviation world. It's like learning to speak Chinese. It takes a lot of work to get there.

Knock out your PPL and then see how you feel.

 

I have a new hanger that is going to up for sale in the near future. Have no idea where in Co. you live but my hanger is in Fort Morgan Co. ( We moved to Fl. and currently leasing my hanger).I don't know the nature of your hanger questions. In Co you certainly need adequate insulation for both the summer and the winters. Doors are also important from the standpoint of decreasing workload,safety etc. Mine are Bifolds that are self locking. I like the idea obviously of having a side door entrance/exist as it decreases wear and tear on the hanger doors. Heat is a great option if you plan on minor maintenance or just like to go there and fool around. Many small airports in Co are the greatest from the standpoint of talking with the local pilots,trading war stories and just companionship. Can't tell you the number of times told the wife will be back in 15 minutes and returned 4 hrs later just shooting the ---- with the guys, picking up tips etc.

 

Fort Morgan Airport is well maintained and is undergoing an expansion and widening of the runway.

 

I own a hanger, but it's on a private airport. I'm not sure how relevant my information is for you.

I like mine, but things that would make it better:

1) Better insulation, especially on the roof. It gets both hot and cold.
2) Plumbing. While mine's only a short walk to the house, there are times when a sink and urinal would be nice.
3) Wireless networking. It's a pain to have to go back to the house to look up a schematic.
4) You can never have too many lights
5) If you can, build it with a clear span. Mine is older and has horizontal beams on the trusses. It hasn't been a problem yet, but could be.
6) Doors are a religious discussion. Personally, I like simple-stupid. I have manual accordian doors and like them quite a bit. My neighbor has a power bifold door with a remote, and he loves it. One place I looked at before this had a big bifold door with tangled cables, and it was stuck about 1/4 open. No thanks. Those doors that slide sideways beyond the frame of the building always seemed inefficient to me.
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Great info, guys. Next week I will start looking at some hangars at various airports to start getting an idea of what's what.

 

Hangars get hot in the summer, not much you can do about that except open the door. A few of my neighbors have heated floors. Expensive up front, but they are nice.

+1000

lol on religion. I used to have a bi-fold with cables, now I have one with the straps. Would never go back. Cables always gave me worries. Never had any problems, but they do require inspection and replacement (mine lasted 4 yrs). I don't think the straps will ever wear out. I would not get a remote. Scares the crap out of me it something went wrong. My SIL almost broke my door once when she started to raise it without undoing one of the side latches. I have a dead man switch and watch the door religiously while it is moving (have auto latches now as well ).

 

I insulated mine, doesn't get hot in the summer, nor cold in the winter. Cost was about 10k, or so.

Art

 

Any suggestions on hanger dimensions?

 

Depends entirely on the proposed (and possible) contents.
Did basic design on one that had to be able to hold a G-V. We started with the plane's dimensions.

Friend keeps 4 cars only in one of his (small). His planes are in another (at another airport).

Lots of little one-Cessna t-hangars around.

 

I purchased one at Addison Airport (long term 50 yr ground lease) and put offices and carpet inside it. One GREAT addition was the "BIG ASS" Fan I had placed in it to keep it cool(er) in the summer. Also have a Schweiss strap bifold door that works great. Here are some pics:
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Good advice. Don't let the complexities deter you from getting your PPL. It's a very satisfying accomplishment you will enjoy for the rest of your life. If you do buy an airplane, I recommend you hangar with a good FBO for awhile. There's a lot to learn about ownership, hangars, airports, etc. and you could make big mistakes if you move too quickly. Just deciding which airplane is best for you and your needs is one of the biggest purchase decisions you'll ever make. Focus on your training first, worry about everything else later.