McLaren 650S

Unreliable, will not make it through a track day, if you want a turbo car 458T will be faster. Mclaren are struggling to sell them.

 

Isn't there a McLaren section?

 

Well while not comparable I just sold a turbo car (GTR) and bought a 991 GT3 to go along with the 458.....the GTR was a great car but looking forward to getting back to an NA car as a dd.....I could not imagine my weekend car being turboed.....just doesn't sound fun.....

 

First 2 good impressions about 650S :
1. Butterfly doors.
2. Performance.

First 2 bad impressions of the 650S :
1. It looks very ugly when the doors are closed (subjective).
2. It sounds like vacuum cleaner and kitchen exhaust being operated together (objective).

 

I'd like to hear what you thought of the car.

I think the 650S is a really great improvement over the 12C and probably what it should have been from the start. I still prefer the 458 but thats just for my own emotional reasons.

 

Very curious why you say the car is unreliable on track? Specifically, what are the failure points?

Asking because I actually heard the opposite feedback. What I heard was that the guys in Vegas (Exotics Racing) that let you track all kinds of different cars found the McLaren to be bullet proof relative to the other cars they rent out for track use.

Regarding the 650 on other grounds--have to say I prefer the 12C design better cosmetically. Picking up a used 12C in the US seems like one of the strongest performance bargains out there IMHO.

Even though probably slower around a track--much prefer the driving experience of a Scud. More to a car then raw speed for me...

 

I've got a 650S and a Speciale. I usually reach for the McLaren keys first.
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I have had a 12C for the last two years and contemplating getting a 650S right now. I got my 458 at the end of May, and I love it. Although both cars are Mid Engine V8's they are so different than one another. The Ferrari definitely has more personality, but my 12C let alone a 650S is much faster. Hope to give a better answer if things go right.

 

Vegas instructors seriously limit your driving experience so the cars are just performing at 50-60% of their capacity. It is just for show, not hardcore tracking. They tell you when to brake. The mclarens can handle that. But even the vegas people will tell you that the 458s are their most rock solid vehicles.

When pushed hard on a track, mclaren engines overheat, tires overheat, all sorts of error messages pop up. 458s can take a real beating and easily complete several 25 min sessions on a hot day without issue. Mclarens have to return to pit after a couple of hard laps. At least they can't handle the intense heat in Dubai like the 458s can.

Why are they the strongest performance bargains out there? Because they don't sell and take a huge depreciation hit worldwide.

 

Wow I love it!
Eric

 

I like the red one best.

 

I own a 458 and drove a 12C Spider some weeks ago and a 650S Spider last weekend.
Just they are different animals....rivals but totally differents.

Highlights from my 650S Spider ride:
-Fast (very very fast )
-Suspension feels better
- Sounds not as louder as 458 and a little bit "fake" but is OK for me overall.
- Doors up --> big win.
-Gearbox as good as the 458.

I have owned the 458 one and a half year and the 650S would be a nice choice then.Go for you really want.
Good luck.

 

Well stated, exactly different animals. Best to own both!

 

Such a question will, tautologically speaking, have answers all over the place. The only "true" comparison you can do between two cars is to have them both, and drive them both over a reasonably long period of time. And even then, you'd be answering it for yourself, since somebody else's sense and sensibilities are likely to be quite different.

I have a 2015 650S Spider and a 2015 458 Italia. I've driven them almost equally so far, putting a thousand miles on each over the last month or so. If I could only have one, at this point I'd choose the McLaren. But I'd miss the 458 so badly that I'd work very hard to change circumstances so I could have it back again.

One key pseudo-subjective difference, which may be at the bottom of many opinions, is that the Ferrari delivers the so called "emotion" rather easily (for example, while cruising around town), whereas you do need to drive the McLaren hard to extract the same level of emotion. I seriously doubt that those making kitchen exhaust/vacuum cleaner remarks have driven the McLaren and driven it properly. The McLaren's engine can be extremely mean and angry when you want it to be. It's just that it goes about it differently than the Ferrari.

Besides engine characteristics and performance, there are tons of differences--stark and subtle--between them. As far as I'm concerned, most of these differences aren't necessarily of the kind that would make you strongly like or disklike one or the other. On the contrary, these differences make ownership of these cars all the more interesting. In other words, these two aren't substitutes of one another--they complement each other superbly.
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Looking at your picture, you must be very fit physically to be able to get into those cars parked so close each other.

 

Great Post and right on! It is funny I have been driving my 14 458 for the last month and I switched to my 12C this weekend and forgot how much I love the McLaren as well. I am contemplating getting a 650S Spider, but have not committed just yet. Did you have a 12C before?

 

Heh, yes, the garage situation is tricky currently and it can be a mini circus act getting in and out. However, the parking strategy in the picture does sort of work. The McLaren is narrower in the middle, so as parked, there is room for the Ferrari's driver-side door to open sufficiently. Moreover, being dihedral and all, the McLaren's driver-side door doesn't have to go all the way up to allow just enough room to squeeze in.

 

Who told you at exotics racing the 12C is bullet proof! I want a name! I'm out there fairly often, hell the bought my Scuderia! The Nero Daytona with gray stipe is my old car. Every time I go the 12C's are in maintenance. The 458's not in maintenance.... Always something on the 12C's from what I'm told. Can't drive them hard on a daily basis without issues! I just received my Speciale 3 weeks ago, have had 3 458's, would NEVER consider as 650 or 12C period, end of story. I would buy a new Porsche Turbo, drop some Ruff money in it and never look back over a 650 if I wanted Turbo car.

 

Sounds like you are saying the failure point is overheating. I wonder if that is a Dubai/ME only problem.

I have participated when they came to California Speedway. The only restriction I saw was that you had to leave traction on. I definitely feel the cars could be used more than 50 or 60%. I sincerely doubt the average guy who goes to drive at exotics racing (including myself) is even capable of driving the car at 100%. One thing I am pretty sure about, though, is the cars take quite a lot of abuse. In other words, with the traction and security control on--those system have to work extra hard as hacks typically "overdrive" the car into the corner causing those systems to work overtime (IE brakes to keep the car in line). Amateur drivers have no problem at all going full throttle in the straights...I would think entering the corner smoothly and at the right speed is actually less hard on the car then what the amateurs do...

The reason I think the McLaren is a performance bargain in the used market is because for the money (around 180K for a 2012) you can get something that is very fast around the track relative to other cars of similar age in that price range. . Is that not the case? Even if you think the 458 is faster (which many would surely debate) please show me where I can buy a 2012 for 180K USD with low miles please. What is faster (not "better") around a track for the money? To me the real competition for the car at that price range is the Scud. Again, I would prefer the scud, but I would think the 12C could beat it on most tracks in terms of pure lap time.

Seems that bringing up McLaren can trigger some aggression so I should be careful..Like I said before, my preference is not for "the fastest" but to buy the car I enjoy driving most. For me the Scud/16M really does it for me..

 

That is interesting. Here is more background on the info I have.

I have only been to it when they visited California Speedway (they did not bring a McLaren unfortunately). At that event, a few of the cars were having intermittent issues--but very hard to judge as personally I only went once.

However, the guys I went with that day go quite a bit to the one in Vegas. The story I heard from one of the guys was I was with was that the McLaren had tons of miles on it and performed well compared to the other cars from a reliability standpoint. I also heard that the car was actually sold back to McLaren so they could take a look at it.

Sounds like you heard something different? Anyone else know the story?

Incidentally, I think I drove the scud you mentioned. From driving it, it really seems that it has been used quite a bit..seats are worn from people getting in and out--now has had a rough life--as have many cars there. Seems like they would really get good information on car reliability if it could be tapped into. The thing I would love to know is how well the dual clutch transmissions have been holding up and how expensive they are to replace/fix?

 

Very interesting indeed, thank you for sharing.

 

Super interesting. I have spent a bit of time in the 12c and I think I can see what you are saying about it accomplishing things differently. I am super impressed by how refined the car can be when not driven hard. The experience has left me thinking the idea combination may be adding 650/12c spider to a Scuderia or 16m (maybe even a speciale but have not tried one yet and would dramatically increase the price of having both cars) . In that way sort of maximize the difference between the cars so that you maximize your variety in turn.