Interesting pair of jets, I am out of guesses

Let me try to give only facts and maybe others here can help me figure out the puzzle.

Roughly noon yesterday, I see a pair of small white jets in relative proximity to each other, as in, same altitude but within a couple thousand feet of each other, clearly on approach to SJT. I was about 10 degrees out of line from their approach so seeing them in silhouette, they appeared close to each other, closer than typical traffic would be. Let's call them Cessna Citation CJ1 or CJ2s. But I can't be sure the type. They were very similar in size and engine configuration.

So as I usually do when I see air traffic that I think looks interesting, I pull up FlightAware - Flight Tracker / Flight Status / Flight Tracking to see who landed at SJT. No listing for one or two small jets landing yesterday.

Didn't think again about it until Today at noon, sure enough, two small white jets on approach to SJT, this time I am observing from directly under the approach looking straight up. The pair passed overhead in the time it took me to walk about a half block.

Looked on flight aware, no listing for the landings.

I don't know that they landed, maybe just shooting approaches. I assume FlightAware is an "opt in" sort of tracking where you're only listed if you want to be tracked.

So what are plausible explanations for a pair of nearly identical small business jets? At same time of day on consecutive days? Maybe this is more common than I realize, but that's why I'm asking the experts.

 

test flights from Cessna in Kansas? I assume those planes would have blocked registrations from tracking.

 

Could they be Air Force Beechjets (don't know the designation)?

 

DHS/Customs almost surely. They use them to harass pilots flying around TX and other border states. They almost caught me once. I was driving out from my flight as one landed behind me.

Fresh reports of aircraft searches, CBP has little to say - AOPA

 

all of the above plausible, and the last two are entirely likely.

DHS Customs has a hangar at the airport and after looking at a picture of the Beechjet, that could definitely be the planes I saw, although they were very plain, fewer USAF markings if any at all. It looks like those are used to train navigators which makes sense. Also I'd lean toward military based on how close the planes were to each other yesterdat. Not necessarily in formation but way close. I said a thousand feet but after rethinking I now want to say less than 500 feet apart yesterday.

The under side of a wing that I saw today, it had what I thought was a tail number but could have said USAF. It was just too small to read.

 

I'm going to lean toward air force T-1As and being advanced trainers makes a lot of sense, since they were so consistent in the time of day they appeared, and there are a couple squadrons at Randolph and Laughlin. (So wikipedia says )

But only could have figured this out with your help, DonV! You've earned your WT avatar

Maybe Mark would poke holes or support that theory. He did answer my question a while back about why C-5s would be doing touch and gos out at SJT (avionics certification after repair IIRC)

 

Dave probably has it with the T-1 theory, they fly formation stuff. Most of my time in the T-1 was doing low levels (300-500') through the canyons down in the Big Bend area. It was a lot of fun. We also did some very close formation stuff for me, getting within about 30'.

 

Tomorrow I'll keep a decent camera with me when I drive to lunch, just in case!

 

I doubt DHS does any formation stuff.

The T-1s used to train navigators are all out an Pensacola since around 2011 or so. The T-1s at Randolph are now just for pilot instructor training I believe. The markings aren't exceptional, probably just a few planes with anything fancy.

 

Finally, a question I can answer with some degree of authority!

They were T-1's (Beech 400) out of Laughlin for sure. I suppose it could have been a pilot instructor training flight out of Randolph if the tails were red. If from Laughlin they had to be guys in the class beneath me- they are in the first block of formation now. SJT is the most popular outbase for formation "out and backs" given the locations of the MOAs, AR tracks and low level routes that are used. On FlightAware they would appear as one plane, since just one flight plan is filed and only lead squawks

The planes you describe were probably recovering to a tactical overhead, as this is the easiest way to recover at an outbase. Times make sense too- all those lines take off between like 930 and 1100, and the sorties are either 1.5 or 2.0 hrs depending on the block of flights the students are on.

The last phase of pilot training for airlift/tanker pilots is formation in the T-1. The first block of rides in this phase of training is basic formation in the MOA, followed by a formation arrival to an outbase, WX perimitting. The second block of training is simulated air refueling (departing single ship, meeting in the AR track and recovering single ship) and low level formation airdrop, which (WX permitting) ends in a formation arrival someplace.

 

You gotta be ****tin me. LOL. Seriously, is there any question this forum can't answer?

 

nope

 

I'm sure you'll see them again today. Got a few buddies going there on a checkride today. San Angelo has a fair amount of lunch options, so the students don't mind going there over and over again (IP's on the other hand...). #FiveThousandDollarHamburger

 

So I guess you've eaten at packsaddle a few times

 

I forgot I had a haircut appointment across town around lunchtime, but when leaving there I saw what looked like a T-1 approaching SJT around 11:40, and so I headed toward the airport to see if I might get a better look. I lost sight of it for a while but as I got close to airport I saw the same type jet banking hard left at low altitude. After your post yesterday I had searched the term "tactical overhead" and so that fit with what I read on web (see pic below)

Not long after the T-1 disappeared from my sight I saw a plane taking off, I thought it was the same plane doing touch and go, but as it climbed out and banked left and head north, I saw it level out, it had the profile of a T-38.

I drove out to the airport to see if I could spot the T-1 on the ground but didn't see it. I saw two small jet aircraft similar size to T-1 on the ground on north end of airport at the DHS facility, one marked with Border Patrol livery and one with US Customs on tail.

I never saw the T-1s on the ground, the south end of the runway is harder to get to, and American Eagle has a bunch of jets furloughed that block the view of the ramps to the south.

Fun to see the T-1 right on schedule and also a T-38!
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Drove by Packsaddle a lot of times since its on the way to town. Heard it was good, but never had a chance to eat there! Ate at The Grill three times one week. I don't have high cholesterol, but probably did that week. I've been forced to go to Chik-Fil-A in the mall a bunch. People always want to go there and I don't understand why.

The T-1's would be at the FBO (Ranger) past the AA planes. The plane you saw was probably a crew going to ferry home a plane that broke there. If its the crew I'm thinking of they would have been a single ship coming off a low level route that starts at the town of Eden, south of San Angelo.
There is definitely a lot of T-1 traffic that might not full stop there, but these days with budgets getting back to normal most flights are "out and backs" where the plane full stops and the crew gets lunch (as opposed to "locals" where the plane just goes back home).

The 38's probably don't touch down there. I don't think they have the runway length. They probably just fly the HI-ILS or HI-VOR, then go back home because they are out of gas.

 

It's too bad you can't see some of the really fun stuff rather than just takeoffs and landings. I spent the day flying loooooow through the hills. There were some golfers I saw who were interrupted while working on their putz.

 

Re: The Grill, If you lived in San Angelo you'd understand why. It's the best non-chain option on that end of town.

If you're ever going to be through here again for lunch, and with a crew that wont bust your balls too hard for including a friend you met on the internet, holler at me through PM.

 

I say T38, I am relatively certain that's what it was. Here's a terrible cell phone pic of it flying roughly north-northwest.

Also a pic of what I think was a T-1 banking into final approach, my vantage point was about a mile and a quarter from the runway.

(Stop me when this gets boring for you, I have learned a ton! But don't want to beat you down over minutae, it's interesting to me to get the other side of what I see in the air.)
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That small pic is a definitely a 38. For that T-1 the procedures for a tac overhead are fly up initial (basically up the runway) at 200 kts (250 at home is more fun), pull throttles to idle and bank 45 degrees to turn downwind. Roll flaps and lower gear, slow some more and lower flaps the rest of the way. The base turn (perch) is usually shorter on a tac overhead resulting in a steeper (in terms of descent) than normal final turn than normal, rolling out on a one mile final. Its kind of exciting to fly a business jet the way we do (see [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt96oWKocrk]USAF T-1A, Columbus UPT Class 12-09 - YouTube[/ame]).

Re: lunch. Definitely would, although I'm all done flying so won't be up there in a T-1 any time soon. Just waiting for graduation.

 

Thanks for all the cool details. Congrats and best of luck, if you haven't gotten your job assignment I hope that goes as you want it to.

There isn't a great place to observe what's at the FBO except from the commercial terminal behind the secure area, it's fun to watch final approaches from the park by the lake, but you can't see anything once it's much beyond the threshhold. Tough to see what's in front of the Ranger FBO unless you're flying commercial and have gone thru security.

 

We flew overheads at 350 KCAS, but bled a lot more speed in the turn to downwind.

 

Depending on the jet, speed will differ.

Until the Hornet was limited to 350 for longevity purposes, 500-510 looks, feels and sounds much better.

The F-5, personally, does better north of 475.

"600', 600 knots, belly to the boss for the **** hot upgrade from paddles"... The only way to fly...

 

Affirmative, but it sure makes the turn wider. Does get you closer to corner velocity, though.