Anyone know the car ? Uk 365gtc

http://www.thehairpincompany.co.uk/car-Ferrari-365GTC-1969.html

I am thinking of trading a Daytona against her ( my Daytona Is a minter rhd classiche , red with black total restored ) am I mad ?

Thanks for comments / advice

 

Please post a pic of your daytona, interior and exterior.
Thanks.

 

!

Jack

 

can anyone point me to direction on any threads on 365GTC values. my Daytona would be a the top end of non plexi values. so £550-600k , I am finding 365 for difficult to pin a value on . cheers

 

It might be worth taking a look at this web-site.
Ferrari 365 GTC/4 Owner Registry

Your car might be worth up to £650,000 looking at recent trends.
Personally I would not be considering the swop not unless you need the money, but I am a bit bias!

 

Think he means GTC not GTC/4 so he would be tipping cash in.

Either way, I'd stick with a Daytona as I don't "get" the 330/365 GTC. IMO styling is unbalanced and they don't have the road presence of a Daytona.

 

Thanks Greg.
It's never a good idea for me to post that early in the morning!

 

yes gtc ( see link ) not gtc/4 ! is the view that GTC is worth more than a mint Daytona RHD non plexi classiche

 

My opinion is that your Daytona is worth more, looks better but does not drive as good. (Two pats and slap...sorry). Driven both recently.

Phil
365 GT 2+2
550 M

 

wow really , I thought people would say 365 worth more but doesn't drive as well.... agree re looks as Daytona more iconic etc

 

They are very different cars. Drive the GTC and see how it compares to your Daytona -- which is "better" probably depends a lot on each person's individual priorities and preferences (and on the mechanical condition of each individual car), so the only way to know is to drive it.

Value-wise, it's difficult to say long-term, my guess is that the GTC will be worth more. All things being equal, non-red seems to draw more dollars at auctions than red in the current market. The 365 GTC is considerably more rare if that means anything. Only 168 365 GTC's were made versus 1284 Daytonas. There were also 598 330 GTC's made. Some (myself included) prefer the styling of the 330 GTC because of the side vents versus hood vents, but the 365 is reported to be a lot torquier (even though it is only rated at 20 HP over the 330).

 

In the current market I believe the value of a 365 GTC exceeds that of a Daytona in comparable condition.

 

Dealer Gary Bobileff is asking $1.1 million (USD) for a 330 (not 365) GTC listed in the Ferrari cars for sale section. Auction prices, the only real data we have of actual selling (as opposed to asking) prices, have been in the $750,000 to $1.1 million range for 330 and 365 GTCs. A very good 330 GTC can sell above a 365 GTC without question. I don't think Daytona coupes have been near $1.0 million--yet. As to which is "better", a Daytona or 365 GTC? Very different cars, and a totally subjective determination. I owned both a Daytona and 365 GTC at one time, and now have only the GTC. I don't think there is a better vintage Ferrari for touring.
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Thanks everyone. A lot to consider , other option is take my Daytona back to original colours ( silver with blue ) as I think I would drive her more. I have an f40 for the " red " thing , cheers again

 

Cant fathom Daytona values at the moment but have owned this 365 GTC ( 12249 ) twice.........Last sold in late 1990's to William Loughran who then sold it on to Anthony Bamford who sadly changed the colour from its original Azzuro to Blu Chiaro.......It was rather tired when I last had it but still on its original Borrani wheels........From memory it had its original Black interior then....... Poor quality pic attached circa 1998.....
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v helpful paul, thanks

 

Neil, for posterity, this is chassis number 12449. Originally supplied in Azzurro with Blu Scuro hide.

The first photo below shows the car in 2000 for sale with Talacrest with new paint colour (copyright: Andreas Birner); the second is from the September 2014 advert you posted above (copyright: Hairpin Motor Co. or its photographer).

In the period between these two photos being taken, the car was offered by Christies at the Le Mans sale in July 2004, but did not sell. It was offered again by Christies in June 2005 - this time in the UK - and sold for hammer+premium total of £52,875.

As far I know, the interior is currently Blu Scuro or black (although it appeared to be the lighter blue, VM 3015, in the 2005 Christies catalogue), but the exterior was altered in the late 1990s or early 2000 as per Paul's description above.

There are elements of its history that need to be checked/clarified...

The description for the Christies June 2005 sale had some interesting inaccuracies, namely an incorrect order number and an erroneous statement that this car was originally Grigio Le Sancy (which appears to be a result of it being confused with chassis number 12249 - a GTC which was converted to a '365 GTS' in 1979-1983 by Graypaul).

Christies claimed in 2005 that s/n 12449 was owned by Bamford in 1969 and was registered as 'JCB 4'.

However... Bonhams claimed in 2008 that s/n 12249 (the GTS conversion) was owned by Bamford in 1969 and was registered as... you guessed it, 'JCB 4'.

At the time, Bonhams claimed to have the original service book for s/n 12249, showing the December 1969 stamped maintenance made out to A P Bamford, JCB Sales Ltd with the registration plate as above.

Unless there is evidence I am not aware of, I believe that Bamford owned s/n 12249 in the late 1960s, but owned s/n 12449 in the late 1990s.

It seems highly unlikely that Bamford owned *two* 365 GTCs in exactly the same year on exactly the same registration plate...

-Ed
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Ed..I rather think I confused the issue with a typo in my previous post...I should have typed 12449 NOT 12249.

12249....... Maranello Concessioaires order # 410. Painted Grigio Le Sancy. Trimmed in Blue 3015. Alloys. Sold new to John Haston on 25th April 1969.. UK license number G 2.

12449...... MC order # 426. Painted in Azzuro Hyperion with Dark blue trim 3282. Alloys. Sold new to ( Viscount) Eric Portman on 27th June 1969. UK license number EP 151.

This car is 12449.

Bamford owned 12249 in the early 1970's but I dont have exact dates. Unsure who he sold it to.

I sold 12449 to Loughran in the late 1990's who immediately sold it to Bamford......I presume he obviously missed owning 12249......

I have checked this post for chassis number typos. paul

 

12249 was originally Argento Metallizzato 2.443.009 with Bleu VM 3015 leather, grey headliner and blue carpets. MC Order #410. Assembly sequence #690 and PF Body #C0786.

12449 was originally Azzurro 2.443.648 with Bleu Scuro VM 3282 leather and blu scuro carpets, MC Order #426, Assembly #713 and PF Body #C0854.

Marcel Massini

 

John Haston, was the Uncle of Dougal Haston the famous Mountaineer, I saw this car I believe early 70's with a full dial type phone fitted even back then.

 

Hi Marcel.......Re 12249.....Maranello Concessionaures records and correspondence on file refer to this car being DELIVERED painted in Grigio Le Sancy 2.443.009.....I have found errors in these records previously so wouldnt swear to anything but I would say they are usually 99% correct.....Likewise I know the factory records are not in infallible.......a case in point being 4411GT a 1963 Lusso I bought as a 2 owner car painted in Rosso Rubino.......In pre Classiche days I requested information from the factory and they swore it was originally painted in Ivory. However the original owner confirmed and a subsequent bare metal strip down proved the car had always been Rosso Rubino.... Factory records will show Lusso 5467GT as finished in Argento 18940M but was delivered new painted in Aston Martin Roman Purple......It all gets very confusing.....paul

 

I exchanged emails with Marcel about this a little earlier and 2.443.009 is the paint code for Grigio Le Sancy and Argento Metallizzato so two names for the same paint colour and both sets of records are correct.

Jonathan

 

I love it.......lol

 

Marcel...... Out of interest I would love to know what your records show for 4411GT ? I am aware that 5467GT was painted by the Concessionares prior to delivery......

 

Paul, your post only included a typo - you were not mixing up the cars.

I believe it is Christies that WAS mixing up these cars in 2005...

The mention in its catalogue of Bamford owning 12449 in the late 1960s/early 1970s seems to have become a part of this car's history, and was indeed mentioned in this 2014 advert - but as far as I know it's simply not true.

He DID eventually own this car (ie, just the once!) in the late 1990s. As you suggest, I can well imagine the motive for the purchase was regret about selling 12249 all those years before.

-Ed