Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

The 918 wasn't supposedly slower then - it was actually slower then. Porsche takes the blame for the early negative press they received for two reasons - first they underestimated the level of performance they needed to be competitive from the beginning hence the extra 9 months of development to boost the power delivered from the electric motors, and additionally they put incomplete cars into the hands of journalists (and potential customers) who came away less than impressed.

McLaren never cut production by any amount and clearly with the premiums P1s are commanding now they could have sold more and were smart to build the number that they did.

>8^)
ER

 

After watching all these LaFerrari videos, I think that's the favorite. I felt nothing for the Enzo, I covet the LaFerrari

 

Porsche was the 1st to announced the next generation hyper car, it sets the bar. McLaren and Ferrari has a target to shoot for.

Problem is, Porsche was sandbagging all along and that bar was set lower than reality, and one competitor fell for the oldest trick in the book.

If you know car development, it is not possible to add 100HP in 9 months. The performance is always there, but being prototypes, the power output will need to be fully tested and certify before putting to production. What this means is that Walliser spec-ed a hefty saety margin for the e-motors which is why the power level can be safely brought up to the current level. Being the much bigger company, Porsche has the resources to fully test prototypes to the ragged edge to squeeze the last drop of performance, something McLaren can't compare being the smaller company.

Journalists were told before hand about the under-powered prototype cars, so there really was nothing to hide other than someone whats to make a big deal out of it. They let them being driven early to showcase their breakthrough technology.

Seeing the P1 getting trump by the 918, McLaren had no choice but to release the GTR version to stay ahead. Isn't that true Erik?

What took the longest during that 9 months delay was the brake calibration. A separate reservoir is in the system to capture the brake fluid during regen braking, once the limit is reached the brake fluid are bleed back into the system to activate the physical brakes.

As for the 500 number, I had my sources on that when I had my deposit for the car. Once they cut the number by 25%, and I was told 375, my first reaction was that wow my car is gonna worth more. But after taking off my coloured glasses and step back a few steps and research more about the P1, I have decided I am not going to buy a souped up 12C. When I asked about the major components of the P1, the universal answer that came back my way was it's a 12C part that's been modified, or heavily modified, or based on the 12C but re-engineered.

 

Can you put out a vehicle fire with a sandbag? I'm not sure...

I am sure that in 9 months you could boost the power levels of existing components to the edge of their safety margins in order to be competitive. They may not have started this enhancement program at the point they were handing cars out to journalists, and I know all about the "But wait, there's more." story. In very un-Porsche-like fashion they seem to have been forced to hand out incomplete cars because their final spec was behind schedule and they didn't want to arrive late to the party you claim they started. In the end good for them, and good for you as a future owner but don't try to rewrite history.

Yes, the P1 has origins in the 12C and many of its parts are similar. The company may be 50 years old but as a new consumer car company they made it clear from the start they'd build at least three vehicles based on the initial platform they had developed, altering said platform where appropriate to suit the needs of each model. It made good business sense to start with the 12C for volume and to establish their dealer network around the world, however, if 12C came after P1 would anyone criticize McLaren for decontenting their hypercar and building a more affordable variant - probably far fewer even though in the end its the same thing. McLaren also don't have the billions of dollars backing them that Porsche have access to so when it makes sense to enhance and re-purpose components that is exactly what you do. If you need your hypercar to be made only from unobtainium parts, unicorn glue and fairy wings that's your issue.

And yes, P1 GTR was definitely reactionary - but a reaction to customer desires for a variant of the P1 that didn't make concessions for road legality.

>8^)
ER

 

You were told 500 when they were still undecided on the final production number. They never said 500 were going to be built and I don't know how many times this has to be explained, really.

"Seeing the P1 getting trump by the 918, McLaren had no choice but to release the GTR version to stay ahead. Isn't that true Erik? "

Your statement about the P1 GTR makes no sense at all. It was on the cards a long time ago and it has nothing to do with the 918. It's not even road-legal, as you well know.

 

Salvage some bits from the nose but this one is a goner.

Here's the last one in High Res:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByqesLhCAAAiNE8.jpg

Credit for all three belongs to @davidandperry on Twitter. He suggests that this was the car's owner:

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/10/15/bay_st_millionaire_michael_wekerle_sued_after_drunken_escapade_in_us_hotel.html

>8^)
ER
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

You dont happen to have the 2nd in high res?? For science

 

Oh yeah, for science... of course.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByqesJZCEAEL0f0.jpg

Here's the first one:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByqesJZCMAAEpFe.jpg

Here's one shot of the interior:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByqesJWCQAAO--j.jpg

>8^)
ER

 

Impressive curves, even after that fire

 

Wekerle IS the owner of that car.

Erik, you have no doubt about the high praise I gave to the 12C platform, I never said any bad about it. So in McLaren's circumstances, it is very beneficial for them to expand it upwards, but in my own personal believe, I'd much rather have stuff trickle down from the top than souped up from the bottom, or in this case the middle.

The P1 has always been in the plans for McLaren, but it wasn't suppose to be a hybrid, Porsche forced McLaren's hands on the hybrid part. It is very clearly to see when you see where all the hybrid parts fits. The e-motor had to be placed where it is now simply because the 12C's platform's hard points are that, hard points and the wheelbase can't be lengthen to make room for a inline motor. The batteries also had to be placed on top of the fuel tank because that's the only spot available. No competent engineer would place the heavy batteries up top on a ground up design, even the LaFerrari had them next to the ground on the floor. But props to McLaren engineers for making the P1 handle fantastically even with a suboptimal batteries placement.

but just imagine how fantastic a ground up design P1 will be. That car, if it ever happens, will no doubt be a true F1 successor.

It is still early to talk about the value of these machines, like stock IPO, there will be a initial feeding frenzy to drive up prices, but in 10-15 yrs, the true colour will show. By that time we will know whether the extra production numbers on the 918 will be a factor in valuation, or the humble roots of the P1 will prevent it from taking off, or the secret extra LaFerraris that will be built will affect's it's status as THE car to buy.

 

This. Yes, given the choice, starting from scratch, the emotor would not be hanging off the side of the petrol engine, and no way engineers would place the battery there. Cultists attitude? 'no big deal'. Yeah, right.

And it was mentioned ages ago, during early development, that 918 engineers kept the blueprint flexible (emotor output, max speed emotor coupling, etc). As you said, they didn't 'find' 100+ hp my magic. Right here righ now spec still accounts for targeted reliability measures (Porsche folks here tell me V8 is good for another 75hp if certain reliability and emissions target was not in play), so it is nowhere near on the ragged edge as many dissenters here claim: "they had to go back and get more performance (presumably out of thin air) it's maxxed out beyond what was originally capable of" so it wouldn't get embarrassed. And on and on and on....

 

P1 e-motor drives the gearbox input shaft hence subject to drivetrain loss - 15% conservative, effectively reducing the 176-hp to at best 150-hp. In comparison, LaF feeds all its 163-hp e-power directly to the differential.

 

And does so by hanging that very heavy e-motor off the back of the gearbox, increasing weight behind the rear axle and subjecting the car to a higher polar moment of inertia in the process. It also means we get a view some unattractive orange high voltage cables through the rear grille work bringing people to comment that "Ferrari would have never designed it like that.", but they did.

There is no such thing as uncompromised design or engineering. Every decision introduces them.

>8^)
ER

 

I think thats the 918's HOT lap feature

Seriously though all this talk about bespoke and quality and then this happens.

I hope the driver is safe.

 

even Adrian Newey would be impressed with that tightly packed rear end..

 

Agree except for the orange cables which I actually like. Highlights the hybrid nature. Ferrari could have made them black and inconspicuous if they wanted to.

Higher polar moment vs more e-power, pretty sure Mac would have favored the latter if they had the choice.

 

The power cables have to be colour-coded in orange as a warning sign. It's more of a safety feature than anything.

As for P1's electric motor, it is capable of producing 202 hp as seen in Formula-E or 243 hp when the 'FanBoost' is activated.

 

I'm sure all these motors are operating well within their maximum outputs for the sake of long term reliability. There's a reason why Mac tuned down a 202-hp motor to 176.

Yup, especially with traction motors, just increase the speed of their cooling blowers and you can get more hp out of them.

 

That's actually pretty cheeky! Driver was ok. Peeps are saying he pulled away with nozzle still in the car, causing the fire...hmm. The fire is burning heavily on the pump itself...with hose sitting on the ground at the pump. Owner is apparently quite the personality...known to enjoy himself tremendously. Very interested how this unfolds, how this actually happened. And yes, the petrol filler cap is on the driver side.

 

yes. Just like engines in any car. in 918 case, there just happens to be 3 power sources to think about.

 

actually still can't believe people drag the 'we will build 500' comment just to prove a point of no point !

When actual customers and who saw the first privet concept preview never been told or as far as me about the 500 number !

The P1 GTR is not a response to Porsche at all ?!

Why would they if the P1 already a great sold out car with a long waiting list if someone drops off..?!

it's a track only car with one great I mean really great program I've just came from woking saw the P1 GTR i spent a great amount of time checking the car and I've seen a preview of what it's like to be in such program.

The official release of the program going to be next month or so I can't give more details than one word if you someone bought a P1 and wants a lifetime experience you won't be disappointed.

Mbn

 

Its not the first case of a 918 burning.

Don't try and put the blame on the guy. On McLaren life somebody was trying to blame the pump being leaky.

The car has a design flaw with the proximity of the tank to the exhausts, which needs to be fixed.

 

The eMachine fitted to the P1 is identical to the unit fitted to the new Formula E race cars and has a maximum output of just over 268hp, meaning they have left it with almost 100hp of headroom... for now.

>8^)
ER

 

You are running too fast into this, Mr. "Future Owner"
This design covered more a 1 mil. km. without any issues throughout the whole world during it development progress. I think it's better to know the exact facts before making claims...

For now, there are two rumors:
1. The driver left with the pump still in;
2. The guy, who works at the station has split some fuel over the engine bay - if this is true, so can happen on every mid engine car...

 

I've witnessed three people do this over the past 20 years and the quick-disconnects designed into gas station hoses will prevent any fire from occurring. The car is also still parked right at the pump - not ~10 feet from it which is at least how far someone would get before realizing they had goofed. On top of that, the placement of the filler right next to the driver's door and in full view in the side mirror would make out nearly impossible to make such a mistake in the 918. I too saw that suggestion on social media and just don't believe it is a plausible explanation under any circumstances.

>8^)
ER