Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Wait until you understand even more about your car ...

 

He did beat the Veyron to the line the 2 times they went against each other , certainly .
However I was told the best trap speeds for the 2 cars were 207 at about 400 metres less than the p1 took to hit 209. Most impressive was the Aventador!

The next v max will be mega there will be la Ferrari , p1 and 918 face off !

Fyi
Speeds according to Vmax Twitter feed were:-

9EXX 212 (on 60% power!)
997GT2 208
SVM Nissan Qashqai (yes!!) 207
La Ferrari 207...
Bugatti Veyron 207
Lamborghini Aventador 204
997 9E28 201
Ferrari F12 200
Mirage GT 199
Ford GT 198
Noble M600 198
9FF 997 Turbo 198
Porsche 991 TurboS 197
Nissan GTR 950bhp 197
Audi RS6V10 700bhp 196
Mercedes SL600 Kleeman 194
Nissan R35 GTR 194
McLaren12C 189
Godzilla GTR 189
Ferrari 458 Speciale 187
Lamborghini LP560 Spyder 187
Porsche 997GT2 187

 

WTDoom, why does the 997GT2 appear twice? Is the higher speed GT2 modified or tuned? It would be great to see a test with only OEM spec cars and not tuner cars...

Nevertheless, good to see these results!

 

I Understand that it offers 903 hp that is accessible without a hot lap mode that drains the batteries.

 

Be ready to be shocked!

 

It might be more than 903 hp

 

Ok, this is my first post on FChat and I have been reading these very "entertaining" posts on the LaFerrari, P1, and 918 for past week. A lot of questions are unanswered on this forum and it is clear that people defend their favorite cars irrespective of the facts. I must state that I personally put down a deposit on a 918 recently and I will try to be as impartial on this debate as much as possible.

I noticed there was a good question posted by Neosky that questions the KERS methodology used on the P1 that no one had answered yet. P1 fans, could you guys answer his question so we can understand better?

"What I don't understand from these graphs is that from 41-46s, while on full throttle, the battery goes down by around 20-30%. But if you look at the interval 51-59s, the battery gets depleted 100% in only 8secs burst?! It doesn't seem to me that P1's battery would last half as much on tracks like Big Willow compared to the 918."

Second, I understand Whoopsy's statement on the P1 not having the full 903hp at all times, but I think it was a little confusing from the way it's stated. Let me clarify, the 918 is always operating in full 887hp mode in either Sport, Race or Hot Lap mode. However, what's confusing and needs to be clarified here is that the P1 also operate in the full 903hp mode (with the exception of e-mode, boost mode and charge mode). The difference between the two is the way the battery is used. In the 918, with its 4WD engaged at all time (except over 165mph), the battery is always used and recovered through its braking and engine. In the P1, the battery is used less of the time because it was designed to "torque fill" the engine due to the massive turbo lag.

I will give you an example. If you exit a tight hairpin and give it full throttle, what's the difference between the P1 vs. 918? In the P1, and assuming you have the traction control on, the computer will think it's too much throttle and won't give you 100% of the power (by cutting back torque and power) even though you asked for 100% power. It will engage the e-motor a little bit (depending on your rpm and if the turbo is spooling already) but it will definitely engage the engine to start regenerate e-motor due to excessive torque. In the 918, the electric motors are constantly working and due to its 4WD system, the electric in the front axle will be working hard to pull you out of the corner as you have requested. In the same example, the 918 computer might give you 100% front axle power but pull back in the rear axle and use of the excess torque to recharge it's battery.

I think this is what Whoopsy is trying to say, but in reality, it's just two different ways of attacking the same problem. After doing so much research, I have concluded that each car has its major weakness.

P1 - no regen system on braking, and this will be a big problem on certain tracks and certain driving conditions. More so, if the car was driven by professional race car drivers, where their throttle/braking input is more like an on/off switch, I seriously doubt the P1's set up can recover its energy fast enough on tracks like Big Willow.

918 - the front axle disengages after 165mph, so in essence you are getting less than 887hp after 165mph, which is why the 918 is slower than the P1 and the LaFerrari in the 0-186mph matrix. Based on everything that I have seen online so far, I feel the LaFerrari is certainly the fastest of the 3 and the P1's real world performance does not live up to its claim figures. Porsche being Porsche, is performing better than its claimed figures.

LaFerrari- braking longevity and not a real hybrid. With LaFerrari's KERS set up, it's regenerative braking is set up for the rear only. So essentially, you are braking with the front brakes most of the time. On Rennteam forum, a LaFerrari owner has already complained that his LaFerrari experienced overheated front brakes after a few hard laps on the track. Also, in the sense of the Hybrid, LaFerrari isn't really a hybrid vehicle in the true sense. Do I personally care that it's not a real hybrid? Not really because I'm always a fan of the Italian V-12 set up but I would be personally worried about its durability in a race track setting (because I personally track all of my cars).

Now, as to why I chose the 918 over the P1, well that's another conversation for another day.

 

Rich, considering what I've read posted here by some folks, and Flat Earthers. SMH/LOL

OK. So I'll bite. Did Motor Trend do another test (the official)?

If so; great! Kudos!! You could have just mentioned it, instead of the poor attempt at snark. ASFAIK, our lives didn't revolve around Ferrari chat, and/or discussing these vehicles (what's done is done; what's been said, been said; unless there's something new). It can get quite boring and tedious.

If Motor Trend DID NOT (Perform an Official Test/Provided new information on the old)?...I'm not sure what your purpose, implying here?

FWIW: Don't think I ever compared myself to a journalist (just to play ball with you, and your interesting assertion).

Please find me the comment for our mutual bemusement; otherwise carry on, good day.

 

Whoa 997 is fast! Thanks for the results!
When was the 207 recorded? Was it the race against the f12?

 

That's a highly tuned 997!

 

Finally I found something really interesting, and not p1 vs 918 BS ;-)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgMrJ72kkTA]Laferrari XX on track HUGE sound - YouTube[/ame]

 

That sounds sick. Glad they didn't go with the turbo v6 rumored for the lf xx a couple of months back

 

Very good observations. Having studied the telemetry of two 24 Hour races on our car at the Nurburgring I can say that under race conditions your statement:

"More so, if the car was driven by professional race car drivers, where their throttle/braking input is more like an on/off switch"

is correct.

I also believe that in a two hour race 918 would leave La Ferrari and P1 far behind and of the three would be the only one that could last for two Hours flat out. It would of course have to run with a HP/Battery setting that allowed recharging without using Petrol to create electrical charge by true KERS not Petrol "kers".

Cheers

 

Welcome to fchat, and congrats on the 918. Amazing machine and a weapon on track.

Like you said each of these cars has its advantages and disadvantages and each manufacturer has used the hybrid tech in different unique ways to suit their platform.

Regarding the 918's hot lap mode, this is from motortrends 2014 best drivers car bonus article ;

"To the data we went, and the results were more impressive then we could've guessed
: 1:30.97. Randy had taken 2.65 seconds off the production-car track record. And he'd done it on his first hot lap. Never mind that both subsequent laps, when the battery was depleted, each broke the record by more than a second."

The 918 loses performance when the batteries get depleted from using hot lap mode. It is still fast though as hl mode is marketed as more of a qualifying lap mode.

The p1, from asking people that have attended the recent spa event, does not lose charge nor performance.

 

Interesting that you think that a 918 would win in a two hour race flat out. Is it because of the bigger battery?

My experience with endurance racing is that it is all about fuel efficiency, refueling strategies and setup. Definitely not about the highest hp.

 

This has been discussed/explained AdNauseum.

If you run the 918 in Race mode, it [presumably] goes on and on; lap after Lap.

This is why/how Motor Trend was able to continue breaking the record (car was switched in Race Mode). If wasn't; then the 918 would probably have gone even faster than those subsequent record laps, if placed into Race Mode from the start.

Even in HOT LAP Mode, many/most owners, will not be able to deplete the battery, due brake regeneration. Even Frank Walliser stated this (on video)......Until proven otherwise; only expert drivers, pushing the 918 8/10's and above will be able to do this.

The difference between the 918 and P1 for your post: 918 has bigger enough batteries (and brake regeneration) where it can afford to have a "HOT LAP MODE". The P1 cannot, due to it's set up. If/when you want the 918 to be like the P1's set up; just put it in Race mode.

FYI: 918 still breaks Ring Record in Race Mode

 

Why does it always appear, the most intelligent, and factual owners of these cars, are Hands Down 918 ones? Lol

Thanks for your thoughts. And congratulations on your Purchase Unotaz

Your thoughts on the P1's battery life on a decent size track, has been one of the main speculations on why it hasn't posted an official Ring time.

Many folks believe it couldn't finish, and sectored times were given. Others say, it was just plain slow/slower--if it even finished--due to the battery and potential ride height trouble.

Note (for the passionate Cabal/True believers): I didn't share this with Unotaz, for others wanting to disprove it, and/or to start another useless FF Ring War Argument. Not necessary. I Only included this speculation to notify Unotaz (if unaware), based off what he suspected above, since they seem to compliment/dovetail each other.

I figured you'd like to know, hear it (if you hadn't already) Unotaz. Even Shmee50 brought the rampant Battery/Sector time speculation when discussing the three cars in his recent video (so please, no more Ring War Talk). FWIW.

PS: Despite the 918's Front motor decoupling above 175 mph (I think it's 175 now, and not the previously stated 165 mph), it's actually tested very well in the 0-186 test by Sports Auto, and Auto Motor Und Sport (I know sister publications, but different cars used).

P1 was tested in the 20+ secs by Autocar. 918 was tested under 20 secs by both Sports Auto and Auto Motor Und Sport.

So it may not be necessarily slower in even high speed test than the others, despite Porsche's set up. Crazy (if true); right? Lol
There's other test which approach those speeds as well. But I'll let some others bring those up.

We also have to remember, not every manufacturer's HP claim, is as robust as another as well. Lol

Hopefully, we'll see more of these high speed runs with all these cars set up by willing parties? It should be fun.

Enjoy your weekend.

 

You say many owners, but mt has managed to deplete the battery from the first lap in hl mode.

I drove the car in race and hl modes, and I did feel a big difference between the two modes.

The 918 has bigger batteries that can afford hl mode because it needs them. Don't forget that the 918 has 120hp less from the engine than the p1.

The p1 does have smaller batteries but is setup to maximize on the regeneration as it doesn't rely on epower as much. It is also setup to complete a full lap on the ring without depleting the bat, and will regen on any throttle lift off. I wouldn't say it is more efficient, rather regeneration in the p1 is more suited to its usage.

 

Do you think most owners of these cars--including yourself can drive like Randy Pobst, mind you being hell bent on breaking local track records??

Can you (Drive like Randy Pobst for starters)?

The 918 doesn't need Hot Lap mode. It's essentially a luxury, and Get Out OF Jail Free Card that the P1 just doesn't have (as a comparison, not a knock). That's what extra, quality engineering, research and problem solving achieves.

Porsche didn't have to give the 918 a Hot Lap Mode setting. The reason why/how it can have one, is due to it's larger batteries and brake regeneration. Yes, it has a smaller ICE engine, thus needs extra electrical boost. However, that's what the simultaneous, and/or alternating engine and brake regeneration are there for.

Well, there has been much speculation, that the P1 couldn't finish it's Ring Run, due to it's poor battery set up. So that's ironic.

Either way, it hasn't proven a Ring Time worth mentioning, so it serves no use for us to talk about it; respectfully speaking.

PS: 918 can run around and around (presumably till the gas runs out) on the Ring in Race Mode. Hell, if you drove it DriftWithMe, maybe even in Hot Lap mode. Lol.

Again: I think you're not recognizing, that only Ace top flight drivers on demanding tracks, driving above 8/10th's and above could presumably drain the 918 battery.

And remember, in Race mode, 918 finishes Ring 3-5 secs slower on a hilly, bumpy, 13 mile long serpentine track. Not bad.

 

Well since some have seen the real ring time of the p1 your argument is invalid.

You also assume that owners will not be able to push past 8/10 of the cars potential. Lol

My respect to all the talented race drivers, but the 918 is so easy to drive that any gearhead with time and dedication to learn a track will be able to push past 8/10 of its limit

 

Well, I'm not going to get into any Fairy Dust Ring Time Video Hocus Pocus here. SMH

I'll leave that to the "True Believer's" and " Flat Earthers" of the cult. Lol

It's one thing for the 918 being easy, easier to drive. It's another thing for an owner to have the talent to pull off what you're saying. That still takes driving ability.

So based off your comments; I'd like to see you go to Willow Springs and run a 1:35-37, or the Ring and run a 7:10 even. Please post the video, unlike McLaren.

You gotta be joking, pulling my leg (8/10's and above from most owners). Lol

 

Would love to take you as a passenger lol

 

Nah.

The video would suffice, in case something bad happened (knock on wood/smile). Lol

Good Luck though. Lol

 

No I insist, nurburgring. If something were to go bad you know which door ill be aiming at the tree for lol

 

Yeah, right!

That'll be the one day the Seat Belt mysteriously malfunctioned. Lol