TWA 841

Interesting piece (30 years old now) by a great writer on TWA flt 841 - The Plane That Fell From the Sky.

Apparently has not been available online previously - was the first time I read it.

It is not clear from the piece exactly what went wrong mechanically - would be interested to hear - suspect we may have a few here who know first hand.

 

Thanks

 

I had to go back and familiarize myself with the results of the NTSB investigation. Controversial. The NTSB's official position remains, as far as I can tell, that this was a crew mistake. It has been vehemently argued by the crew that the NTSB's investigation and conclusions were flawed and ignored facts and evidence. Obviously, a starkly honest assessment is necessary to determine the cause so that corrections can be made in an effort to avoid similar future calamities. The charges against the NTSB are disturbing, if true.

CW

 

As I remember that indecent (I was flying for an airline at that time) it was the captain that decided to go to 390 (way too high for the weight) and pulled the CB for the slats. When the FE returned to the cockpit he saw the CB out, pushed it back in and all hell broke loose. When they landed, the hero, Hoot erased the CVR. I think they all got fired.

Bob

 

From what I remember, the LE slats are linked to the TE flaps. So, when the flaps start deploying, the slats do also. The slats can be isolated by pulling the proper circuit breaker so that the TE flaps can be lowered separately. At high altitudes 2 deg. of TE flaps can increase lift and we were told that this was done many times by 727 pilots. Re-engaging the LE slat CB when the TE flaps are extended started the LE slat extension at high speed and we know the rest of the story.

 

Hmm...

So, it was the miscommunication among the flight crew that was the cause? In other words, the PIC and FE's failure to disclose what they had done regarding the CB to one another.

CW

 

Well yes, but that procedure was made up by pilots who thought they were more clever than the engineers who built the aircraft. then, after pretending to be the "hero" he erased the CVR!

 

I did read that he admitted to doing it. His excuse was he did it out of habit, if I remember correctly.

Certainly worthy of suspicion.

CW

 

I'm going back 54 years ago to when I developed and instructed courses in 727 Familiarization. I think that I can still dig up bits and pieces of the details. That was a great airplane.

 

No, there was "no disciplinary action".

They continued to fly for TWA.

 

Was this the one where he had to drop the gear to recover the high-speed dive?

 

Yes.

CW

 

ha ha wow, I was on this flight!

 

Seriously? Do you still have your ticket?

 

This place never ceases to amaze

 

I was looking at the lead-in photo of the 727-200 with everything dirty and full nose up stab trim to compensate for the fully extended flaps. Sixty to eighty percent thrust at this point if I remember.

 

so in laymans terms ,what went wrong?

 

The flight crew.

 

Bob, let me ask another rather naïve question:

In the story I was told, dropping the gear (somehow) depressurized the cabin which the passengers all cursed the pilot over for...is there some inherent connection to depressurization with gear going down?

Or, was all this just some off-airport/sports bar talk?

 

This is another "Bob" but I see no coloration with landing gear and pressurization of the cabin.

 

You beat me to it "Another Bob". Digging through my head and my "stuff", I couldn't find a correlation either. It could have been initiated by the crew. Interestingly, I was on a 720B test flight in 1962 when they simulated an emergency descent. The pilot instructed everyone to belt up and deployed spoilers and the main gear. The turbulence from the spoilers hitting the horizontal stab. shook the airframe hard enough to shake down some of the overhead panels in the cabin. Alarming downward angle and descent rate. If I remember, it was something like 4000 fpm.

 

Both Bobs - that was pretty much what I thought.

I figured that (if true) the depressurization was either initiated by the crew willfully, or by the pressurization system itself due to the rapid descent.

Also I fully agree about the cause - some pretty bad flying followed up by some pretty good flying - but it does not add up to net zero. Still bad flying by the crew.