Closed cockpits in F1

What kind of tractor was that anyway, the Japanese always have funky things you could always pick out the Japanese warships for instance. Why not a true extended forklift, telehandler or crane that keep it off the run off area?

 

As I understand it there was no damage to his helmet, so are we talking about a 50G stop that has done the damage (I know the video looks very bad). Would that outcome be any different if he had had hit the armco there (that was his option). Did the nose arrangement in fact propel the crane above his head and save him?? Do you think if he had obeyed the flags and gone off at 100km/h would we even be talking about this.

This is open wheeler racing not sports cars.

John

 

+2
It costs next to nothing to supply every corner with a speed gun and a little training, but the effectiveness would be enormous. To eliminate the arguments over where the slow speed zone actually started they could display the first yellow at the station before the accident site.

If this doesn't work, Pezos will sell Bernie drones to retrieve cars with ;-)

 

they confirmed on tv earlier that having a closed cockpit wouldve made no difference and canvassed the various negatives. silly idea.

 

Bingo.

I made the same argument in the Bianchi thread.

Going off a track at over 200 km/h in a 90 degree angle is not really survivable.

 

Actually they are wrong. It would have made a difference. It would have taken longer to get Jules out.

 

Yes, and there is a good chance he would have suffered severe wounds from the broken canopy plunging into his body.

 

Exactly. How many man hours of open wheel racing is there on any given year without an injury due to the design of the car (open wheels, open cockpit)?

Include F1, F3, Indy, Indy Lights, private owners (OK, they aren't racing but they aren't top tier racers either), racing clubs, etc.

There is a lot of use of open wheel/open cockpit cars and the record seems to be rather safe.

The reaction here by some is just a classic over reaction and is frankly dangerous because it's a distraction away from the real cause of the accident.

-F

 

What happened to Bianchi was awful but he was well aware of conditions, no doubt aware of the prior crash and recovery vehicles on track and well aware of the flags. Despite that he still took too much speed into that specific corner and the rest is history.

In terms of the kneejerk reactions from the paddock, if the drivers want a far safer sport they should be willing to take the reduction in salaries that is likely to follow. The inherent danger in F1 is marketed and helps sell the sport. Whether people like that reality or not. More sterile racing means less interest, leading to less money to line the drivers pockets.

If they don't want to take those risks in F1 they should piss off and become taxi drivers.

The idea of closed cockpits is utterly ridiculous.

 

I think you may very well have nailed it in this particular case. Obviously, we'll never know, but it looked to me that this could well be the archetypal accident in which a closed cockpit would have 'crushed' down into the car, resulting in an inability to get it open. And then the MMQB's would be howling about what a silly idea that was!......

"Motor racing is dangerous". Sometimes, these days very rarely fortunately, bad stuff happens. Don't like it? Go watch curling. Or at least closed wheel racing.


Ian

 

You know what's more dangerous than an open cockpit?

Walking onto a live track.

 

Under the influence of Mary Jane......

 

I'm old enough to remember when F1 drivers rarely retired, they got injured or killed. F1 has, happily, become very safe. This accident is Bianchi's fault, not F1's. He was moving too quickly under a double yellow flag in very heavy rain. It's sad when this happens, but making knee-jerk changes after an accident that should not have happened....is classic over reach.

 

Sports car racing then!!

What happens if the car flips over as they have done in the past.

Stupid idea, much sought by the aero engineers no doubt

 

Surtees hit in the head by wheel of another car...

 

What was Barichello doing shaving whilst driving an F1 car? - And was it battery powered or did Brawn GP put a shaving socket in the cockpit for him?

Surely Braun shavers are assembled better than to have springs fall off them?



These are important questions that require answers!



On a more serious note, I think it's far more important that drivers pay proper respect to the yellow flags and slow down properly, rather than this sudden call for enclosed cockpits.

The drivers know full well that they have only been paying lip-service to yellow flags and now it appears that the FIA have realised that they've been letting the drivers get away with far too much, and that they can't trust the drivers to change their ways, so will have to make changes for them.

In the case of Bianchi, can anyone honestly suggest that he was travelling through the double waved yellow section at such a reduced speed that he could have stopped if necessary, as the flags dictated?

He flew off the track, hitting a multi-tonne tractor, lifting it off the ground! - That doesn't suggest much of a reduced speed to Me!

Considering how the airbox and roll-hoop behind his head was destroyed, I can't see that an F-16 style closed cockpit would have made any difference whatsoever.

 

Good catch I should have remembered its like the paper towels "Brawn"(y)

 

Fair comment.

Wasn't F1 and was what, 4-5 years back (?) was my point. Sucks no matter what, but again, they understand the risks.....

This one seems to have the MMQB's out in full strength..... 'Enclose the cockpits' (so the guy might be trapped), 'enclose the wheels' (they might be safer), 'deploy the SC' (which wouldn't have done squat here).

Let's ruin the entire ethos of the sport due to one terribly unfortunate, unlucky, accident.... No thanks.

Get well soon Jules,
Ian

 

Wrong as the tractor would not have been there. It would have remained behind the fence until queued behind the safety car.

And as I have said already in this thread or another, once the drivers are told the safety car had been deployed or is about to, they do slow because there absolutely is no advantage pushing then.

You keep your narrow minded view but Whiting should have deployed the safety car of left Sutil's car there. A different end result would have eventuated.
Pete

 

After watching the Bathurst race control today headed by Tim Schenken (ex-F1) Charlie Whiting needs to hand his license in and let Schenken take over.

Decisive judgements made, clear strong enforcement of how and when to deploy the SC.

Charlie ****ed up, by NOT deploying the SC, and Jules ****ed up by going too fast .... BUT, if the SC was out there Jules would now be well and *****ing about too many SCs

I just found it unfathomable that someone of Charlie's experience DIDN'T deploy the SC

So for the first time Pete, I'm agreeing with you

 

I've got to disagree John. There is a lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda here. Put the safety car out there and there is nothing to say that Jules wouldn't still have been doing 210km/h trying to catch up or get to the pits to put on full wets - take the tractor out of the picture, he still would have hit the armco behind with the same result.

And referring to Bathurst, you would have seen that car cannon into the back of the queue behind the safety car at full tilt so the argument doesn't really hold water. If there is proper enforcement of the flags this won't occur again.

John

 

Agreed. They do this and im done watching.

 

I give up once they cover the wheels

 

I'm so glad My post was taken in good spirit! - Thank you for that!

 

I agree, a cockpit would not of helped Jules in this wreck, nor would wheel covers. The car is pretty darn safe as is, it was the speed of impact, combined with hitting an object with a shape that isn't on a similar plane to an F1 car's crash structure.