Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Then, if true it is a shame once again...
What do you mean with the over boost? What is the conection?

 

+1000
I appreciated you very much,
All I can say about this fake test is shame on Both Mclaren and Autocar again very cheap behavior, after each defeat they back with another lie...

 

I find it funny how most people (usually fans , not owners) stick and focus on the review (EVO, CH, Autocar,MT) that fits most with their car preference..

Anyway, another inconsistent point of autocar's measurements as shown below:

In comparison to previous P1 00V acceleration figures, the latest P1 00A car was 0.6 slower up to 150mph (possibly due to worst track conditions since 918 numbers were slower than other tests) BUT ~2s faster to 200mph (must have hit IPAS/DRS/ a positive gush of wind mid run in Bruntingthorpe.....)
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I think they call it 'regen whilst braking'. Its my understanding when the brakes are applied, or perhaps more correctly a lift of the throttle, the negative torque from the drivetrain is running the e-motor in generator mode and the ICE is also feeding the batteries at the same time. So there are 2 things going on. The process is more aggressive as you move up through the modes. McLaren have a chart that shows this. How they are able to manage this smoothly is quite amazing.

 

Both cars had a poor start, come on guys.

 

You can't honestly tell anyone you can tell a second and a half difference in a car over 23 seconds of time (while accelerating to 200mph)

You also can't believe that a car is within 1/2 a second on different surfaces of different days (months) to 150?

Even for a spreadsheet stat geek arguing at the bar this is a stretch.

It's too bad this thread devolved into absolutes when almost any car enthusiast would love to hear from people who own these amazing machines as to what they like and dislike about the cars. Anything objective for street cars is pretty silly.

 

Both used LC.

Mbn

 

Race mode is not necessarily slower than boost mode in straight lines. Sport Auto's run was done in Sport mode and no one complained. Again, both cars were slower than in other tests or the manufacturers claims, no need to take them very seriously and accuse McLaren of using a "ringer" because the same could be said for Porsche.

 

Race Mode is clearly slower than Hot Lap in straight lines, The difference is much more pronounced than you can imagine (I have had some amazing driving experience with 918 in Hot Lap mode) Honestly I hope you can understand the reality , the P1 start was not a poor start (as my experience with P1 I can say it was a very good start especially in compare to 918!!) Sportauto mentioned many times in their article the 918 was not at the most daring aggressive style (due to their test because it was a super test very marathon one) Mark, I am %100 honest about my claims it is because 918 is faster than P1 every time and every where, 918 proud it many times against my eyes as well as in real h2h tests at Evo and Top gear, not this fake auto car test it is a shame to mclaren and auto car

 

Mclaren used LC as well as Mclaren's driver but in 918 the poor ss not used LC for sure, just a shame

 

It is what it is.

You really have to think about it for a minute though. You're talking fractions of a second difference to 150mph. The difference is less than it took you to read a few words in this post. Would you ever split hairs like that on anything other than a car forum? You'd probably be off by more than that just to count to 3s in your head right now.

I don't really see anything suspect. Different test, different conditions. Wind here, some dust there, slight bumps around this area.

 

Negative torque is just fancy speak, there is no such thing. Torque is an absolute term with a vector component.

In a car situation, torque is provided in the direction of travel. A resistance, a load, is also component in the equation but it also has a positive torque value but in a opposite vector that acts against the initial torque application. This load, can be braking force, aero drag, rolling resistance, drivetrain drag or a load from using the e-motor as a charger or any combination of the above. This is the 'negative' torque.

In a off throttle situation, the momentum of the car, i.e. the stored kinetic energy, acting from the wheels up through the drivetrain, provides a torque value that will be in the direction of travel, this torque has the same vector as what comes out of an engine and is still a 'positive', working against all the resistance/load mentioned above. This load is what makes a car slows down after lifting off the throttle.

In that situation for KERS, the engine will not add torque to the equation, all the force, aka torque needed to over come the drag from the e-motor in charge mode and every other load will come from the wheels up, hence the term energy recovery. Free energy.

On the other side of the coin, if the engine is provide the load to charge even in a off throttle situation, it first has to over come the e-motor in charge mode's drag first in order to negate the 'poor brake feel' of regen braking, that means gasoline is wasted just to negate the free energy recovery, and then more gasoline is wasted in order to provide the load to charge.

 

is that confirmed??

u mean, we can compare GTR Nismo with P1 and 918?

yea, but what about the others (Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi) ? are they using the same strategy??
it will be so interesting if they planning to make a 1M car. what that hypercar cant do?! : )

it will repeating over and over again. haters gonna hate, there's a bunch of references who claims P1 is faster (in most aspects) but they just dont want to believe it. and of course: everyone can be wrong, except the 918 lovers.

this is akward. maybe there was a different driver or different driver performs?
BTW, they have to explain what's behind that..

 

Whoops I don't think anyone is declaring that mclaren is the most energy efficient. Porsche can have that title. So they are wasting fuel. McLaren are using their hybrid system to create absolute power, not low CO2 levels.

 

I really do think you're making up stuff you don't believe just so you don't have to admit defeat.

So lemme get this straight:

1. Ferrari is a business and the LF is sold out, so they don't bother sending a car. Purely a business decision. Waste of time and money.

2. Porsche is a business and cars are pretty much sold out. It's a loss leader too, so who even cares about the last few cars?

3. Porsche has some of the highest margins and in the industry and their operating profit is like 8x what Ferrari's is.

Are you telling me that a company that makes more in 45 days than Ferrari does all year, while still maintaining huge margins, is making bad business decisions? Are you tell me that they don't know what they are doing and they're wasting time/money?

Fiat wishes they could turn Ferrari into Porsche. Their shareholders wish it too.

Let me explain to you why Porsche is sending 918s all over the place and letting people test them and do whatever they want with them. It's because the car is so damn good and it's good for the brand. They know that what's good for the brand is good for sales. They know the 918's performance and mere presence in the media is going to help sell more cars one way or another. It's why every Porsche dealer has 918 promotional material inside even though it's not going to help them sell any 918s. There are people out there who base their purchase on having a car of the same brand as the best car in the world, or what they preceive as such. Do you not think some idiot is talking up how his car shares such and such with the LF/918/P1?

Porsche are that damn confident in their product. Hell, they are so confident in their product that they are letting reviewers totally botch the reviews and drive it in the wrong modes. Well, at least that's what everyone on Fchat claims.

So now tell me how Ferrari knows so much better than Porsche and how they shouldn't send a car half a day's drive north for some tests. Tell me that they are even in the same league of Porsche from a business perspective.

 

I just admire Ferrari for not agreeing to give their car to take part in that "test".
Accuse one another, cheat or be cheated, fight in mud - but without Ferrari.

 

so their s.holders wish it bad :-D,
Crazy world :-D. Crazy posters :-D.

The truth is there will be no suv or 4door from Ferrari. But Porsche has to make them. And has to sell so many cars. BEtter and worse across their lineup.

... Yeah they were promoting 918 secret technologies to the press since yet not finished prototypes. And all the time were fixing and improving. And all the hype about their technology was to make a demand on their incoming product. And I tell you what, I would never buy a 918. I would buy 911gt3 but not 918. 918 is well overpriced in my opinion. It is probably a good car overall but the price hmh .. a high price doesnt already make a hypercar.
I am a type of a tech guy and can tell by only looking at the interior of porsche that it looks dated in comparo with laf or racy p1.

Let alone the control bar arms.
All the technology awd 4ws etc they used in 918 should have made them head and shoulders above any rivals.
But then it reveals that their product has so many compromises .. Eg disengaging front emotor etc what macca took on their crosshair in that messy test.
This is a long thread.
Too long.

 

My favorite of the three is the P1 and it's pretty clear by now, but what you're saying about the 918 is complete nonsense. It is by far the most bespoke of the three. They've done hundreds of miles of testing and spent amounts of money, McLaren and Ferrari can dream of, yet you call it overpriced. The interior is stunning, so high-tech and futuristic. if that's what "dated" means, than I love dated.

As for the front E-motor disengaging at 265 kph, Porsche didn't want to compromise reliability and add weight (i.e. 2nd gear), because they saw it would not be worth it.

If McLaren or Ferrari were the ones to have 918's technology, they would be harping about it nonstop, give them some credit.

 

I doubt they were allowed to freely express their opinions or compare it to other cars they have driven, such as the P1 or 918. All the reviews were boring as, on the same track with journos regurgitating the same thing. Why didn't they allow Carlos Lago to stick a V-box on the car and do an acceleration run? Oh right, too much confidence. Not.

 

Whoopsy you got it, finally. Except for the last paragraph.

Engine charging will complement brake regen, not go against (overcome) it. By this I mean the kinetic energy (thru wheels/driveshaft) will rotate the MGU in the same direction as the engine will rotate it.

 

That last paragraph is actually the key point, since McLaren on numerous occasion has said they do not employ regen braking.

Say the e-motor needs 50lb-ft to charge, the kinetic energy system can recovers that 50lb-ft from the car's motion, but the car will have a steeper deceleration profile than what it would have without that 50lb-ft of load. But since McLaren doesn't want that steeper profile to affect the normal brake feel, the engine first has to produce 50lb-ft just to cancel out the load to maintain the normal speed lost profile, then apply an extra 50lb-ft to drive the generator, in doing so, all the kinetic energy stored are converted into heat through the braking system and, hence maintaining normal brake feel and deceleration profile.

That 50lb-ft of torque will get eats up by the e-motor and none of that will comes through the drivetrain to the wheels, preserving the deceleration speed.

 

I can not argue with you, Mark. It is Your brain that tells you that it is a non sense.

Honestly for me, its interior <no :-Dnot Mark's brain's , only 918s interior:-D> is not so perfectly designed. Like two different design ideas combined in it.and it looks dated. P1s "turbo" buttons on the wheel also look dated to me. Just look as the early 2000s fast and furious movies.

Surely they have their own technology.
And knowledge.
F1 and GT derived- for many years :-D
For me porsche's story is like the bulldozer story of that amd's processor family. They have tried to pack everything in it and it came out overcomplicated not optimized and ..not the best, although amd tried to advertise its product as 8core etc and always talking about their technology. Some might have been fooled by them If you dont ever know its former rival's Intel's tech. The story is, Intel has been shining since many years now and amd is never a close rival to Intel anymore. Because Intel know how to make the best performance cpus. And most efficient . And so asks quite bigger price for its platform.

Cheers.

 

Quite sure it doesn't work like that. First of all, it is the e-motor (MGU) that provides the resistance or load and secondly, the level of resistance/load is controlled (mapped) by the ECU. The greater the resistance/load/braking, the greater the level of harvesting.

There is no need for the engine to overcome that resistance/load/braking because the ECU will merely command the MGU to stop harvesting (which removes the resistance) when it is detrimental to efficiency.

 

I never accused mclaren of sending a ringer car i was referring to the driver . I said the 918 was not in its fastest mode ( as you can see on the dash ) , a mclaren driver drove the p1 ( fact) and suutcliffe was driving the 918 and finally when they cross the brake marker cones there was only a couple car lengths between them ( clearly visible on the video). Kindly read what I write , try not to see what you want me to write !

 

Even if a McLaren driver was driving the P1, it's a straight line race and i don't see how that driver can greatly influence the result. I can understand if they are driving around a track and McLaren's driver vs Suutcliffe on the 918 would give the P1 an unfair advantage. Some post implied Suutcliffe may have favored the P1, i think that is in bad taste to question his integrity. If the hot lap mode completely depletes the battery of the 918, would that be the right mode to use for that test? I don't feel so as that would make it a "one shot wonder". If they had repeated the test immediately, how would the 918 perform? Take the average of the two times?. Perhaps that is the reason they tested it in race mode. This is a great thread, though sometimes a bit personal and bias.