If Nico started last in the last 2 races (instead of Lewis) where'd he finish?

I didn't say I don't like him.... Just less than before

 

I believe I am being completely objective here. This thread is asking where would nico have finished in Germany and Hungary. Someone came in here and posted after sochi that Nico finished second; the inference being that he would've done the same in Germany/ Hungary simply because he managed to do so in SOchi. Now this is no way the case. Let us use Hungary as an example;

Reasons being:

IIRC Hungary was a wet race. Track record has shown that Lewis is FAR quicker in the wet than Nico. See suzuka whereby Nico was evenly matched with Lewis in the dry and then in the wet was some +15 secs behind. Malaysia and China he finishes +17 and +18 sec behind and Im pretty sure there was some rain in those races as well.

Now Lewis did pit under the SC in hungary which afforded him an advantage of about + 8 sec but he also started in the pitlane which is about +5sec lost compared to being in 20th where Nico was in sochi. Nico lost out under the SC at hungary. Therefore If there were no SC nico wouldve finished first (qualified first) and Lewis would've finished 4th still a fair margin ahead of person in 5th. This is on a track that is VERY hard to pass and as I mentioned above Nico has shown he has a very poor track record for passing. Indeed in the Hungary race itself he couldn't get passed JEV for some 10 laps despite having fresher tyres and DRS. Therefore Nico, if he started where lewis did, even with a SC would've probably come out around 9th. This is not some willy nilly bias prediction but based on empirical analysis.

Now if we consider Sochi; Sochi seems to be a VERY easy track to pass. When coming out of turn 19 and across the start/finish line there is a HUGE stretch of track + a DRS zone. This allows a driver to get a tow + then activate the DRS and breeze past their opponent - in fact most of the passes Nico had to do on the merc powered cars were done down this straight.

If we consider Nico's pass on Bottas as an example; bottas and nico were right behind vettel who then pitted - leaving Bottas naked on the straight with no DRS and nico being able to get a tow + use DRS. Now if vettel had stayed out a lap or so longer Bottas wouldve most likely passed him which would've afforded him a 2 second buffer until nico wouldve most likely passed him the lap or so after. Now at this point Bottas would've been out of DRS and nico would've had to work a lot harder to get passed him given that Bottas nearly matched Nico's pace in the last 15 or 20 laps. I think Nico probably would've got passed him but it would have been a much harder ask than if vettel hadn't pit when he did.


And as mentioned above the tyres were a joke.

So yes Nico finished second in Sochi. He did a marvelous drive that accentuated his strengths - he is very good at putting in quick qualy style laps. He is nearly as quick as lewis in that regard and he is very consistent too. Nico's weaknesses lie in passing on difficult tracks and wet weather driving. Thus if one is to use his second place in Sochi to infer that he would've therefore finished the same in Hungary then I am afraid that is demonstrably incorrect.

Now I think Ive been very fair in this analysis so if anyone disagrees please tell me WHY rather than just embracing the blind fanboi rhetoric.

 

So in a nut shell, when Lewis does it he's god and when Nico does it he's lucky.

Yes.... We get it.

 

I agree. Nico fanboys will take it in one ear and out the other. It's amazing the dislike of hamilton on here and it stems from how he looks, acts, dresses. Few detractions are based on his ability in the car which is personally where id criticize him the most for past blunders.

Fwiw i think nico will win the next race He's not going to let hamster win five straight.

 

What !!??

He didn't know there was a corner there ??

He was probably trying to send a tweet to Hamster .... the young generation, attention span of a flea

 

I'm not sure he'll have any choice in the matter.

 

sigh*


and why would you think Nico would do well at US for? IIRC he didn't even make it out of q2 last time or has he ever made it out of q2 there?

If he gets his act together he may be a threat in qualy but not in the race unless lewis has reliability issues.

 

Talking about Nico or some of our posters?



They were trying to show that Nico was working his settings with one hand then the other just before the corner. Not texting but still distracted driving.
If you believe what the "experts" are saying.

 

If anyone watches that cockpit video and thinks rosberg was messing wi the his settings on the steering wheel they are blind or making things up. I rewound that numerous times because I was thinking wtf is his doing?

The wheel is clear to see, he wasn't touching any of the dials.

 

No matter who likes him or dislikes him I think that it's becoming clear that Lewis is the faster if the two.

 

I don't necessarily agree that it was the cause of the lockup but he did take each hand off the wheel and was doing something.

 

Not always, obviously...despite what the lovers might think.

 

Why is this even being discussed about Sochi? Nico did not come from the back to finish second. He started second and pitted once and finished second. His race was exactly the same as everyone else who pitted once. The only difference was that he ran the whole race on one set of tires but since degradation was essentially non-existent, that point is irrelevant. This race said absolutely nothing about the OP's original question. This result would have been expected by any driver in any car that did the same thing, if Bottas started third and pitted after one lap, he more than likely would have finished third.

 

I guess that's another way of looking at it....it's not quite right of course

 

Why?

 

Correct, though a Nico still had to deal with traffic after stopping so early. His ability to successfully dispose of back markers is why he was able to retain his pre-pitstop position (actually, he pitted from the lead, though he would have been forced to relinquish it)

 

Asked and answered

 

if we wanna be technical he had already relinquished it before he pit

 

He sure did.

 

Dealing with backmarkers is why he lost 20 seconds to Lewis. Passing a bunch of substantially slower cars isn't really much of a challenge.

 

Passing is hard if you are nico rosberg.

Let us not forget he couldnt get past a backmarker for 10+ laps in hungary despite having fresher tires and having DRS when his opponent did not. FYI lewis got past the same guy in a lap.


Just sayin.

Though in fairness you do lose a lot of time going up through the field. He was aided a lot given the tire choice was a joke - still setting fastest laps after near 50 laps on the tires. track easy to pass too.,Also by the time he got to middle of pack half of the people were pitstopping so he actually didnt have to pass half the field.

 

The question of the TO was what Nico could have done from the back and the thread was obviously opened to praise Hamilton compared to Rosberg as it looks like a rather rhetorical question than a real start of a discussion.
Everyone said that we can not know as long as it does not happen to Rosberg as well. The Hamilton fanboy No.1 was sure that this can only be made by Hamilton and was looking forward to see Rosberg fail both in Singapore and Russia as everyone can see in the thread of the race. In Singapore there was never the chance for Rosberg to do anything so this is the only race that one can compare and our fanboy seems very disappointed that Rosberg actally did it so now he is looking for excuses and presents them as "facts". Who of you really expected that "toil" would really agree that Rosberg did the same no matter how he drove?

Obviously the newest tactic in that is now telling that Rosberg actually was not last like Hamilton was but second with "just an early pitstop"...
"Fact" is: Rosberg virtually drove a race from last position without a stop on one single tyre set for the the whole race (minus 1 lap for pedants). Even if the tyres were very good he still had to look after them and could not drive the entire race full trottle like the others who knew when they have to change. Still he managed to get to second place by the time people suspected him to make a pitstop if the tyres would not have last the whole race.

If he had needed to change tyres he indeed would have become rather 5th than 2nd but without the safety car in Hungary Hamilton would not be 3rd as well but rather 5th or 6th so where is the difference???

 

you are such a silly kid. You are continuing to flood this forum, that was once a beautiful, peaceful place, with your utter nonsense.
You form your nonsense in the shape of an argument and smear that **** into everyones face. That's the downside of internet. That people like you can walk around and pop into open places and molest everyone. Please please please leave us in peace.

It would be sooo great again to have a place where people acknowledge skill, debate races, provide insightful comments and share their passion for the sport. Where different opinions are valued and treasured and where disagreements can be laughed about and put aside. Where people are grown up with character.

You are a destructive element on here. It is not us that don't accept your crap about hamilton ****ting gold, pissing red wine and then walking on it. nope you might have learnt that won't happen. Move on.

 

The main point is that Hamiltons third in Hungary and Nico's second in Sochi were not equivalent in terms of the skill it took to achieve that placing. Look at my post on the previous page - I think its pretty clear cut based on the evidence we can draw from that if Nico were in Lewis's position in Hungary he would've finished somewhere in the midfield. As stated above, the tire wear at sochi was anomalous in that there is no race on the entire calendar that you could get away on the same set of tires for 50 laps...no way near. As you have admitted yourself Nico would've finished 5-6th if he had to pit again; your admission can also be taken to mean that on any other track on the calender he wouldn't have finished any higher than 5-6th (given that in all races other than Sochi tire deg is an issue). Also noteworthy how easy it is to pass at Sochi + the fact that Nico didn't have to make his way through the entire field - by the time he got to about 12th or so the pit stop window was well and truly open and cars were filing into the pits left right and center.

I was excited to see what Nico could do from the back in Singapore but we never got a chance to see that. I was interested to see what he could do from the back in Sochi as well. Nobody anticipated the tires to last as long as they did so therefore its not an accurate representation. Nobody is trying to make excuses, I am just putting forward valid evidence and analysis and you construe it that way. Congrats Nico on the second place. If I had known from the beginning of the race that his tires were going to last the entire race I would have predicted second place for him too... its completely within his skill set to drive fast qualy laps, he is very good at that.

As an aside; let us not forget Hamiltons stellar drive in Germany. Also, the SC in Hungary only saved Hamilton about +8 secs max. Given he started from the pit lane (+5 sec) and then was dead last (opposed to Rosberg who was like 20th so add a few seconds more to pass the extra backmarkers) that really makes it about even. The significance of the SC in Hungary was NOT the amount of time it gained for Hamilton but rather the amount of time it lost for Rosberg - he had a lead of around 10 secs from whoever was in second which the SC eliminated which made it possible for Ham to beat him. Interesting to note that once things were a level pegging he still didn't win - didnt even beat alonso who also did not pit under the safety car and has a much inferior machine. But I thinnk it is beyond dispute now that Rosberg isnt good in the wet (+15,17 and 18 sec to Hamilton in wet races this year). If the roles were reversed in Hungary (Lewis on Pole Nico pitlane start) I think it is beyond question that Lewis wouldve won the race and Rosberg finish around 9th. That is pretty fair and I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

 

So let's get this straight...you insult me personally, attribute false positions to me when I have never said what you claim I believe, and say my opinions are invalid without providing any reasoned argument as to why. Then in the very next paragraph you ask for different opinions to be valued and for disagreements to be put aside.

I think you should qualify your statements; only opinions that agree with yours should be valued and that if someone disagrees with you it shouldn't be put aside and you should be free to insult them.

You call me the "silly kid" but there is no need for me to counter; your posts speak for themselves