Audi in F1?

audi is the right brand... in a few years the biggest car market will be china, probably be able to sell way more audis there then lambos, plus many of the races are shown in time slots with higher viewership in asia.

 

Racing pedigree is great for those of us that remember it, but the bottom line is to sell cars. Audi for all its success at Le Mans didn't really move the needle much on its core product (A6 has increased while A4 has declined). Its main sales increase has come from the addition of its Q model range of SUVs (Same thing with Porsche). Winning races doesn't increase SUV sales.

A successful racing program at Lamborghini would have a much stronger impact on sales of its product line of 2 cars of which is still under their record of about 2400 cars per year.

 

I never thought that GPs should be funded by the public purse, and I never suggested that.

But the return of Audi in GP to rejoin Mercedes could revive the interest German public and supporters had in the pre-war fight between DB and AU.

It could be expected that more German advertisers would sponsor the races on their soil, and that the public attendance would also increase.

Now, would that be workable, I don't know.

 

How many more cars do you think Lamborghini would sell if if was going to spend $400m a year in F1?

Money is better spent in advertising a mass-produced car like the Audis.

 

My bad, I thought you were talking about the public purse when you said "Germany" Anyway, I doubt that anyone apart from gentlemen like Putin are going to keep paying the sums Bernie demands!

 

Although this was a big deal back then and maybe the most exciting era of GP racing (if you are willing to ignore the ideology behind it) I think today nobody cares about that anymore (apart from a few enthusiasts). Certainly the media will try to make a big story out of this but very few will associate Audi with the Silver Arrows of the 1930s, especially in the new key market in the East. Just look at the fail of the Maybach Brand as luxury version of the Mercedes, not few thought that the car itself would have been a success with the three pointed star on it but not under a brand that was off the market for decades.

I guess the marketing of F1 success will help the marque itself rather than single model lines. Audi positions itself as innovative technical company, both F1 and Le Mans victories could help this image and even the SUV-drivers prefer driving an state-of-the-art product of a "technology-leader". I personally think that Le Mans suits Audi better but after so many dominant years the glamour and the public perception is fading and F1 still attracts much more interest all over the world then sportscar racing.
Mercedes-Benz on the other side needs the success in racing to get away from a rather old-fashioned image as a Mercedes-Benz is still more associated with a pensioneer then a young dynamic (at least here in Germany). As the young people are getting less and less interested in cars anyway every brand has to fight for them as clients even more.

 

+1

Although I think Maybach failed first and foremost because it looked like a bloated S class.

+1 again. I think however that you have to have a certain 'tech' image first as a company. Audi has profited from its Le Mans venture, but they were a high tech marque in the first place. I don't know anyone who relates Mercedes' F1 success to their pensioneer street cars!

 

Hummm, I can't judge of the perception of Mercedes there, but here in UK, Mercedes oozes seriousness and attracts professionals and established people, middle class if you prefer.
Mercedes means success, but nothing flashy, money but not extravagance, it's slightly understated compared to some other brands.
I would put Mercedes in the same bracket as Audi, BMW and maybe Jaguar. They compete for the same clientele.
I think Mercedes made a mistake with the A and B.
The basis Mercedes should be a C at least.

 

If we have to have the big automakers in F1 the more the better. Lessens the ability of any one firm to hold the sport hostage.

While the German government did subsidize native Grand Prix teams in the thirties the money didn't make up the majority of their budgets. Initially MB expected to receive all the government funding but Auto Union ended up claiming half.
It can be argued that government grants for aeronautic research produced GP technology but it wasn't a subsidy as such.

 

+1 again. Not one of my friends here anywhere in Germany is thinking Mercedes as young/youth brand. Still seen as the old person marque.
Seeing the new MB GT being tested near me is very cool though. That might help with a more young/performance buyer. I was at my Kettinger and just missed a good picture of a test/camo painted model. Sounded superb.

 

But it can be argued that big automakers enter F1 for their business interests and not to support the sport, unlike outfits like Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, etc...
In large companies the bean-counters are in charge, not the enthusiasts.

Big manufacturers often muscle their way in, obtain concessions and leaves in a hurry when the fancy takes them. In fact, they have distorted F1 in the last 20 years.

Honda is an example, Renault is another , which have a sporadic participation in F1.
BMW and Toyota are two others that left when the results didn't match their expectations.

If there are too many manufacturers in F1, most of them won't get any return for their investment, and they will leave.

Also, F1 not being their core activity, economic circumstances dictate their participation. A motor racing budget is always difficult to defend in front of shareholders in time of downturn.

 

When you put Swabia and Bavaria aside (as Mercedes is naturally more common in my area as BMW is in Bavaria) both BMW and Mercedes target the (upper) middle class as you said, but BMW because of its sportivity more from the young end, Mercedes as a solid car more from the older end...When you look at commercials for Mercedes over here you see that they try to change that image and attract more young people. Look at the A class, that is a complete different car now from the first version, much more dynamic....
Audi is more a car for all the technology affine people, for example the alloy A8 and the fact that mainly Audi is associated with 4WD (quattro)...

 

Sorry but that sounds a little bit naive to me... At Ferrari, McLaren or Williams they do it certainly for business interests as well! In contrary to Mercedes or other manufacuters McLaren and Williams even need to make money out of that. McLaren or Williams can not just leave as this is their core business.
And I think things have changed at Ferrari very much since Enzo is not anymore and we see that it does even change more now at the moment. In the beginning the street cars were built to finance the racing, today racing is to sell the street cars and merchandising.

 

That's what I was saying.
F1 has been supported by small outfits for which motor racing was the only "raison d'etre" for most of the last 64 years, not big car manufacturers.

Gordini, Cooper, Lotus (the Chapman company that is), BRM, Brabham, Wolf, March, Ensign, and others left F1 because of circumstances, they didn't have anything else to fall on. Their withdrawal was forced upon them, not a choice influenced by the economic congecture.

The manufacturers like Ford, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Renault cannot be relied to support F1 on the long run.

 

Which gets to the point of why it makes more sense for VW to brand an F1 effort as a Lamborghini and not an Audi. Merchandising accounts for about 20% of the bottom line. How much mileage do you think Mercedes is going to get out of being F1 World Champion? Massive sales increase? Unlikely. Now if that was Lamborghini, a 25 to 40% unit increase would be possible and highly profitable, with additional increases in merchandising.

 

Lamborghini was once involved in F1, I remember.

It didn't exactly set the world alight, although it was only as an engine supplier then.

Although, I would think that a slight increase in Audi's sale (say 2%), means more than 25% increase in Lamborghini sales.

I would think that Lamborghini has already established itself in an exclusive niche on the sport-luxury car bracket where the market is limited, but Audi is constantly having to fight the competition.

I may be wrong, of course.

 

The second (unquoted) part of my statement says just that.

The absurd power trains being run this year exist only because the big engine makers wanted something "relevant"

 

I understand what you mean, certainly the small teams have more interest what is good for F1 in several years as they must deal with that in the years to come whereas the large manufacturers are more intersted in the presence to get as much out of it as possible. But I think F1 needs both as the large manufacturers attract more interest in public.

I think that will allways the problem with public relations, commercials and branding: you can never say exactly what you get out of it. Same with TV commercials, does every expensive commercial in a break of f.e. the Superbowl sells the amount of goods justifying the expenses? You might not find out until sales go back as you are out of people´s brain. I think Lamborghini is to small to get enough out of it to justify the efforts

 

Lamborghini has no issue with brand identity. It has iconic cars and continues to build distinctive vehicles. Racing is done by Lambo but not in the grand F1 sense ala Ferrari.
Ferrari do not 'need' F1 at all. Nor does anyone else. Those who are racing companies might like Mclaren or Williams whose business is centered on F1.
Id buy a Lambo without a care the universe about any links to F1. It adds nothing at all to my decision matrix. Same with Porsche.
Ive had 3 different Lotus Turbo models. I never thought of F1 at all while enjoying them. Not a thought ever and Im a big fan of F1. The whole connection to F1 is overblown and useless.
China market sales matter more to most German marques not F1. In the real world F1 is drop of water. Id miss Apple and its products more if it left existence. Missing F1 lol?? Not for a minute. The time I devote to it is easily filled.

 

+1

Sad but true.

 

Only because the power to be keep bowing down to big concerns at the expense of small operators.

I think the FIA and Ecclestone thought the arrival of big car makers in F1 as the salvation after the vacuum left by the departure of the tobacco companies and their massive budgets.

We arrive at a situation where the climate isn't very good for the small operators, nor the public.

 

Agreed.


Never good when you've sold your soul to the company store.

 

Maybe that's were Aloinso will go.......

 

Audi Sport just denied the rumor on Twitter.

@Audi__Sport: "#Audi in F1? There rumors keep appearing with regularity since years. It's pure speculation again this time and without any foundation"

 

No shock at all. Its nice short term publicity but Audi has an excellent racing program and does not need F1 for anything at all.
A familiar face at Audi or Porsche for Alonso would be a good thing though I do think we will see him at Mclaren. Time will tell.