ok so where are s1s today? 600K?
if you consider the S1 sold at Monterey last 16th August for 1,016,000 USD including fee + the cost of repairs for the engine/brake/suspension, it makes it fly around 1,150,000 USD... and that one hasn't Stewart gauges and no BRAVO wheel, so less desirable for some collectors. Some guy will reply it has a low mileage... I agree but it is not the point since the owner's intention is to drive it, that mileage will disappear...
if owner intention is to drive it he really got the WRONG car. 99% of countach would be better than the queen of garage queens i think waste of money paid in a premium price for an almost new countach to me
I agree with you, but I don't blam him, we are all different, so motivations differ from one to another...
yes, in the end the car was a rare rame colorado S1 ...so if he wanted one in this combination it is not there is much choice... in his position i would have bought a much cheaper 30-40.000 Kms driven S2. but yes...to each his own... you are right
+1. this reflects perfectly the market today: Buying unusable car for a museum at premium prices. This car will never see the road again ever. There is no point for it. It has become simply a piece of art that one can only look at. You think like an enthusiast and that is where you are disconnected. Beyond that one can wonder the point of owning a car you can only look at but I guess for art collectors, it is the purpose and may be the main idea. Driving in not in the cards. in life you see 2 kinds of people on vacation: the one who enjoy the present moment and the one who walk around taking pictures of everything to look at later while the present time goes by. To me this is the same philosophy.
Privately, Ive seen S1s trade between $600,000 and $750,000 recently (2 separate cars at those numbers). Publicly, via Auction, we have seen one sell for $1,012,000 1979 Lamborghini Countach LP400S Series I | Monterey 2014 | RM AUCTIONS So that's your range, and IMHO cars are bringing more at auction because of the charged auction setting. Sellers seem to be doing better at auction, and buyers seem to be doing better privately. Interesting market!
The S1 that sold for the $1,012,000 was a special case. As we all know "special" cases arise when a well preserved un-restored and never apart specimen hits the market. Every one is fixated on original cars today and they tend to bring high dollars. Often more than high end restored variants in the same auction. Most get blown away when a fully restored Gullwing trades for less than a ratty one. Where can you find a 500 mile S1? How many exist? How many will be on offer? The car had so much going for it so it brought a good result for the seller. I think it will look good for the buyer too in not to distant future. As far as driving this 500 mile car and it being the wrong car for an owner that wants to drive his Countach is all a bunch of BS. Any one that works full time, has a family and 3 or 5 cars or more will most likely not drive their Countach more than 200-500 miles per year. So in 10 years this car might still have only 5000 miles. Is that going to make it plummet in value because it has no longer delivery mileage? Doubt it. Plus we are assuming a lot. The owner of the car may care less about the value or the mileage on his car and will pay very little attention to it all. He will enjoy a very well preserved, very rare color combination rare Countach. BTW it's difficult to pin point the value for the S1 as so few trade hands. But I think it's what Joe indicated as the range. However if we see Anni cars start bringing $450-$500K than that will have an effect on all other rarer variants. Geno
yes Geno, there are special cases around... not only with Countach, but with so many models/brands ! but here is the perfect sample of the effect of Countach Monterey sale... LP 400 S1 #1121044 with Stewart gauges & Bravo wheels... I have no affiliation => Lamborghini Countach LP400S Serie 1 Low Body als Sportwagen/Coupé in Strasbourg
Olivier, That does look like an "effect" as you put it alright. Mechanical restoration, undone cosmetics and $1.5MM? Maybe the seller thinks there will be another buyer snoozing like the one that just paid $1.8MM for a rough LP400 in Monterey. Hope they get rid of the side skirt when they re-shoot that bad boy... Geno
Wasn't the Monterey LP400 bought by Gianfranco Innocenti, who was also the original owner. Or is that just a rumor?
He has the car advertised here: Lamborghini Countach LP400S Serie 1 Low Body als Sportwagen/Coupé in Strasbourg He also has it advertised here: Used Lamborghini Countach-LP400S-Serie-1-Low-Body - 201149024 1044 has been variously For Sale or Available for the last 12 years. I checked my notes and I was offered it by what I believe to be the same vendor (in Strasbourg) in 2002.This coincides with roughly the time that an image was submitted to the Registry (Detail on *Lamborghini *Countach*LP400 S* 1121044, 19-Sep-2002), one that is often used in the For Sale Ads. For those who look even more carefully, if you don't like the $1,500,000 price for what essentially is a restoration project, perhaps the price listed here from an Ad posted just a year ago and still running sounds better: Countach - 1980 Lamborghini Countach $365,000. He describes it as "1 of 24 LP400S Serie one with Campagnolo cast magnesium wheels...". As most know, there are actually 50 factory standard production S1 cars equipped that way. It is also mentioned as both a 1979 and a 1980. Best,
The car auctioned recently isn't just "a rough LP400", it is the very early ex Gianfranco Innocenti LP400 #1120010. I wonder why you are comparing #1121044 to #1120010. Makes no sense at all.
LP400 1120010 has a very interesting history and special first owner. i do not know its conditions but, even if not perfect, it is still a interesting car for a lamborghini aficionado!
Comparing the cars from the value prospective. I was implying that the record result of the LP400 sold for $1.8MM, a rough car, could be influencing the seller to list his rough LP400S for the $1.5MM. How would Gianfranco's prior ownership influence the result? Didn't some Russian purchase the car?
I believe a Russian purchase the blue LP400 at Bohnams in Greenwich. Also not a perfect car for $1.2 if I remember.
Geno makes perfect sense, he is illustrating the market silliness of top prices for rough cars - 1120010 & 1121044. Furthermore, I agree with Geno, because, even with a supposedly special provenance, it doesn't matter who the first owner was, it could have been God himself, in terms of condition, as described by multiple parties that looked at it closely, 1120010 was a rough LP400. Allow me to demonstrate for your viewing pleasure below, the aforementioned roughness, so that you can be assured that the comments are not unfair. The first 2 images speak for themselves: broken dash-board, old, worn & cracked seats, etc. The 3rd image shows such sloppy over-spray on the door-jamb sticker that one wonders what other poor-quality repairs were performed upon this LP400 in the course of its 40-year life? The 4th image shows another LP400 (1120192 our former car as shown at Amelia Island this year) that is original & un-restored, yet wins major Concours D'Elegance awards. The point is, the cars have had different lives, yet it seems that the market is throwing money at available cars in any condition! This does not bode well. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It is hard to believe that the first owner does not matter, but indeed it's not about the first owner here, it's not about perfect condition, it's the early chassis number that matters. And the original livery (which is not perfect for #1120010). BTW when I went to Paris in 2005 to see #1120012, the worst and the most expensive LP400 that I had ever seen was waiting for me, and in spite of its rough conditon, this very early LP400 with its super livery was phantastic. I am sure that you understand! No question: #1120010 is a total restoration project, worse than #1120012 had been in 2005, but the buyer had ONE opportunity to buy a very early LP400 and so he did well. I am sure that the very early chassis number justifies a higher price tag. Just like the perfect, probably original conditions of #1120192 would justify a higher price tag, because it is worth more, emotionally and in terms of money. Hence, I always have thought that #1120192 is a car that you should have kept, Joe.
i can offer that one of those blue countach's that recently set record high prices was bought by a guy i know, sight unseen. when he did see it, he sold it.
The discussion is about condition, and more specifically, about poorly-conditioned cars bringing record prices. Condition should be the ultimate value guide, but it seems in this market that prudent guide has been abandoned! That said, most people do not know who the first owner of 1120010 is, nor would it cause them to pay $1 more for the car. The notable exceptions would be people who are in some way connected to this individual, or, that individual himself. A regards 1120192, in the past, I have not kept anything, as I have been a revolving collector, preferring to try new things continually. And what a wonderful experience that has been. That said, I feel like I have placed my previous cars (including 1120192) in great homes with no regrets, and occasionally, like grown-up children, they come home for a visit, before they move on yet again. In recent years though, I have started to keep some interesting things, but it works out best for me to keep some things private. Regarding the image, I haven't a clue who shot it, probably a pool photographer for the Amelia Island Concours D'Elegance event, and a quick check reveals that there are even more online: 1976 Lamborghini Countach Images. 1976 Lamborghini Countach Images. Photo: 76-Lambo-Countach-DV-14-SJ_015.jpg example below. At some point this discussion will get back to 25ths as Raymond has suggested ! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Poorly-conditioned cars with early chassis numbers sold at high prices in 2005, they still do today, and they will always do. I don't think so. A very good car will always be appreciated. Nobody asked. Hopefully it will get back now.
From my viewpoint as someone involved in the market with multiple makes & models, lets agree to disagree on this, and I realize there is room for all opinons. Getting back to facts: here is a "poorly-conditioned car (LP400) with an early chassis number" that sold for just $39,950 as just one example of several that prove that your theory doesn't apply in the marketplace: 1974 LAMBORGHINI LP400 COUNTACH | Christie's In case the link doesn't work, the car was 1120004, an early chassis number. I could provide you with other examples which prove that when the marketplace was more sane, poorly-conditioned cars brought low prices, irrespective of chassis numbers. You can start from the LP400 Prototipo and work your way upwards. The fact remains that this basic market balance of applying value based on condition has been abandoned.
Question 1: You thought that I was not aware of this sale? Not really, isn't it? Question 2: What do you think - how much would this car bring today?