Threats of boycott in Austin? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Threats of boycott in Austin?

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, Nov 1, 2014.

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  1. NJB13

    NJB13 Formula 3

    Jan 5, 2013
    1,317
    Pampanga,Philippines
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    Norm
    Excellent post
     
  2. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
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    David
    Is this model sustainable?
    I suspect not. Losing the minnows isn't a threat to the sport there will always be new fools willing to take their place. The sinecure provided to the power players is corrosive.
     
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,882

    Several questions come to mind regarding the partnership between the teams and FOM. .


    Does FIA needs to reward the organisation (Bernie, CVC, FOM) with close to 1/2 of the TV rights? That seems exaggerated to me. What do Bernie and his FOM provide in exchange?
    Is that good value for money?


    If GP wants 12 teams of 2 cars each (9 teams would be the minimum), why the financial model is only rewarding the 5 top teams, at the expense of the others?
    Do they need 12 (or even 9) teams to operate or not?

    If GP don't need 12 (or even 9) teams, why do they accept/attract new teams, and they treat them unfairly.
    Maybe the 5 top teams cannot provide an attractive show with a depleted field, or can they?

    If they do need those teams, why don't they give them some slack and the means to develop and prosper in F1? Why some teams receive less than 10% of some other teams?
    How are they supposed to survive in these conditions?
    Also, why only the top teams are listen to by the FIA and the FOM? It's like if F1 has its own Politburo!
    Why are the other teams excluded from most of the deliberations?

    If F1 is a business, like I think it is, it should conduct itself as such.


    I think that losing the minnows is not important if you find replacement, but if they meet the same fate, the whole business shows it is rotten.
     
  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,882


    That should read "close to 1/3 of the TV rights"


    It's apparently 35%.
     
  5. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
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    Ian Anderson
    Yes & yes. One could certainly argue that creaming 35% straight off the top is way too greedy (unless you're a CVC shareholder of course!), but they all knew that going in. Pick a "reasonable number? 20%? 10%? That would help, but not by a *huge* amount.

    As I think we all agree (even Bernie it seems!), it's how the pie is divided that's broken.

    As you say, it's all "top secret" stuff, but I don't think its that much. IIRC, Sylt (who's close to Bernie and probably has a better handle on this than anyone) said recently the "Ferrari bonus" was somewhere between $10-20MM per year. [May have been 20-30, but no where near a hundred.]

    I could (of course ;)) be wrong, but I don't think that's true. Depending on finishing position they may get more than a newbie in the same spot as "history" is taken into account. Again, I believe the pie cut actually looks back 4-5 years, and if you're "there or thereabouts" consistently you do get a slightly higher cut.

    But I don't think they get appearance fees per-se.

    Sounds about right from what I've read. (A little hi & lo, but close) Further, the 6MM to Marussia was Bernie being "generous" - The agreement says without a point you don't get $ one....

    But yeah, I very much agree here - The "big guys" simply don't need it as much as the small guys.

    Trouble is, Toto and Eric (who's very much changed his tune since jumping ship!) are selfish (as are all TP's of course) & are only interested in their own interests. That they may kill the sport seems beyond their comprehension. :(

    Hopefully, Bernie, who's *sole* care in the world is the success of F1, can slap a little sense into them - I don't see anyone else capable of even trying.... They'll ***** & moan, but love him or hate him, he's the only guy that's ever been able to stand up to these guys commercially.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  6. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,693
    Sarasota
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    David
    The business is rotten. The financial inequities are built in. Sorry to wake Steve but it goes back to Max's big TV money give away coupled to a reverse welfare system where the rich get the dole.
    Renegotiating the deal with Bernie seems unlikely unless the investors are convinced that they're killing the golden goose and that they will end up with the lion's share of nothing.
    But if that can be done. Allocations to the teams should be based on performance. If that's not enough let them buy equity in the sport. They'll receive dividends from the profits and have an interest in the general health of the sport not just their own success. No more "appearence" money for the star teams.
    The venues need adequate remuneration. Don't bleed them dry with fees that make tickets unaffordable. Don't deny them the opportunity to operate concessions.
    Beyond that we need a strong FIA. The specters of Balestre and Mosley make many afraid but an independent, fair and powerful body is needed to set the rules. Rules that will produce cost stability at a level high enough to keep F1 the premier auto sport that it needs to be. Rules stable enough for teams to know what the tech standards will be for a meaningful period but flexible enough for technical improvement throughout the life of the formula.

    It's not rocket science. Get the financial house in order, establish an independant authority beholding only to the good of the sport and stabilize the rules without atrophying performance.
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,882


    Like all dictatorship, the suffering ends when the despot dies and makes way for a new leadership.
    As long as Bernie rules F1, nothing fair or equitable will happen, I predict.
    After his departure, maybe some of the FOM/CVC grip on the busieness will loosen.

    I don't expect the top teams that benefit from an unjust system to rock the boat and oblige the small teams, unless they finally realise they need them.

    At the moment, the whole business is getting bad publicity, and with the disappointment caused by the new formula, they are surely killing the golden goose. I am not sure I would invest in F1 if I was a potential sponsor.

    The redistribution of money solely based on results is sheer injustice for me.
    If Mercedes collect 500 points and receives $200m for it, and Caterham scores none and receive a paltry $6, nobody is going to tell me that Mercedes invested 35 times more than Caterham, or that Caterham is 500 times less deserving than the three-pointed star.
    There are some basic overhead costs, fabrication costs, transport cost, etc... that ALL teams have to meet, regardless of the points they score at the end of the season.

    Rewarding success should come AFTER the basic costs have been taken care of first. Otherwise, any team entering F1 will head straight into borrowing, debts and oblivion.

    I don't expect anything to change drastically soon. Probably Bernie will arrange some window dressing, give some plaster here and there to mask the cracks, but the system is flawed.
    In fact, it's the big players like Mercedes, Renault, Red Bull, even Ferrari, etc... that seem not to protect their interests by letting it go to the wall ...
     
  8. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    David
    As I said if performance based remuneration doesn't suit you let the teams buy into the business of F1 and reap the dividends. If they don't have the dosh to ante up let them move to a cheaper table.
    That alone won't save F1. The rest of my suggested package is needed too.
     
  9. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    BBC Sport - US Grand Prix: Lotus, Force India and Sauber talked out of boycott - This has moved beyond Bernie. Very interesting....

    --A potential US Grand Prix boycott was averted by the intervention of the man who runs Formula 1, Eddie Jordan says.
    Lotus, Sauber and Force India considered skipping the race in protest at what they see as an inequitable split in the sport's revenues and had organised a news conference on Sunday.
    Jordan, BBC F1's chief analyst, says Donald MacKenzie, co-chairman of F1's largest shareholder, CVC Capital Partners, phoned Lotus boss Gerard Lopez and promised to address their concerns.-
     
  10. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    South East
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    Jimmie
  11. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    David
    If CVC is recognizing the systemic issues hurting F1 and is willing to accept a financial reorganization there may be hope.
     
  12. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Certainly for now appears so. Nice to some positive financial F1 news.
     

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